RatLabGuy
You look like a monkey and smell like one too
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- Churchville, MD
Actually ask and address the tough question of what makes a person want to commit the act in the first place.
Lots of interesting news today
- Thread starter jeepinmatt
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DSM Turbos
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- Raleigh, NC
Some will be deterred, will all of them? No, but it would stop some. Example this person legally purchased them at 18, and did this shortly thereafter. Would this person even known how to obtain an "illegal" firearm if we took them off the street?
I'm not saying that is the solution, but in some cases it would help, like I said though, many places in Europe don't have this issue, because guns have never been so prevalent in normal citizens hands.
Real solution imo also is actually looking at mental health, actually trying to stop bullying in school, actually supporting people in your community that are down. Ensuring that these people have somebody to talk to, ensuring that people that do hear things actually report them. Stop focusing so much damn time on what gender team a trans kid plans on, what bathroom people should use, etc. Focus on the shit that would actually keep the damn kids safe, and have somebody to talk to. Life isn't easy, and a lot of kids will never talk to their parents about things that are bothering them, and people need somebody that they can talk to and work through stuff with. Call them soft if you want, but that isn't going to fix it either, telling them to just deal with it doesn't work. Some parents just can't do it all themselves.
CasterTroy
Faster'N You
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- Wallburg
RatLabGuy
You look like a monkey and smell like one too
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- May 18, 2005
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- Churchville, MD
I'm sorry but I feel like this is kind of a cop-out.
In the battle of good and evil, is there just a higher % of Evil here in the US than other places? Because it sounds like that would be your only explanation as to why we are so far off the charts regarding school shootings.
i'd really rather be more rational and scientific and explore what causes people to commit what you'd call the acts of evil, and address those.
Instead of a solution of pulling up weeds ore replying on weed killer, design you garden with plants, lighting etc that naturally inhibit them germinating in the first place.
drkelly
Dipstick who put two vehicles on jack stands
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- Mar 21, 2005
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- Oak Ridge/Stokesdale, NC
I think it is due to the culture here in the USA. Society makes everyone think they are special, but then as a person gets older they start to see the truth. Some people can't handle it.
benXJ
Well-Known Member
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- Dec 5, 2005
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- Raleigh NC
But that costs money and doesn't hand over more power to the government, so it'll never happen.
Where are the parents of this kid? Where where they for 18 years?
Odd that every single headline doesn't mention his skin color. (I don't care, but it's telling)
DSM Turbos
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- Feb 25, 2006
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- Raleigh, NC
Is it really that much different here than Europe in regards to that?
Do you really think people are shooting up schools because they can't handle that they aren't special?
Europe is often a lot more "progressive" in their thoughts on some of these things.
There are plenty of kids that hide very major things from their parents, its not always easy to see the signs. I'm sure the parents feel absolutely awful.
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CasterTroy
Faster'N You
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- Mar 21, 2005
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- Wallburg
Good luck with that
Not being sarcastic, I truly mean it. Your beliefs are entirely different than mine, and I'm perfectly fine with that. withOUT low key slamming you
benXJ
Well-Known Member
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- Dec 5, 2005
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- Raleigh NC
Being in their life, instilling morals and the golden rule, teaching respect and modesty, helping with homework, valuing hard work, asking questions, being told no, helping push in the 'right' direction is free and goes A LONG way over 18 years. Not rocket science.
But again, that limits the power of the government when people begin to rely on each other, think for themselves, help each other, and stop immediately looking to the government for help.
DSM Turbos
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- Feb 25, 2006
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- Raleigh, NC
How do you know these parents didn't do that? It might go a long way, but its not a fix all solution. How many kids still break laws, end up in jail, do drugs, etc that all had parents that did all of this stuff?
I'm not saying it doesn't help, but its not doing enough......
83oldyoda4x4
Well-Known Member
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- Jan 13, 2008
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- Randolph co, NC
Mass Shootings by Country 2024
worldpopulationreview.com
Murder rate by country 2023 | Statista
El Salvador was the murder capital of the world as of 2023 in terms of murder rate. Latin American countries dominate the list.
www.statista.com
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- Mar 20, 2005
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- Hendersonville, NC
There are so many layers to the issue at hand. IMO, primarily it is the lack of empathy for your fellow human, degradation of the family unit and many times, parents too busy to actually parent and invest in their child's life. Rampant divorce, narcissism and it's effect on parenting, living above means so the kids are left alone with 24/7 bombardment of social media and such all play a huge role.
Like I said, there's many, many layers here.
Banning guns, stricter gun laws, magazine limitations, ammo tax, etc won't do shit. It'll have to begin at the family and society level.
Like I said, there's many, many layers here.
Banning guns, stricter gun laws, magazine limitations, ammo tax, etc won't do shit. It'll have to begin at the family and society level.
paradisePWoffrd
Recovering Project Junkie
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- Nov 5, 2005
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- Newton, NC
While I somewhat agree with the statement that some of these events might be scuttled if getting the current weapon of choice wasn't available, I think the majority of them would not. We have seen where things like this has happened with incendiary devices, knives, pistols, etc.
@Bebop could give his more insight about what this might look like over in Europe. My guess is it happens more than we might think, but there is no value for the media to share news from a country they cannot control. If you hear about large attacks in a country where guns are illegal, that doesnt help the narrative.
I believe that many other cultures around the world seem to be more tribal, or place family/community in higher respect. There have been studies showing how the lifespan of many areas are longer, mostly due to the people being together, sharing meals, time, responsibility, happiness etc.
@Bebop could give his more insight about what this might look like over in Europe. My guess is it happens more than we might think, but there is no value for the media to share news from a country they cannot control. If you hear about large attacks in a country where guns are illegal, that doesnt help the narrative.
I believe that many other cultures around the world seem to be more tribal, or place family/community in higher respect. There have been studies showing how the lifespan of many areas are longer, mostly due to the people being together, sharing meals, time, responsibility, happiness etc.
RatLabGuy
You look like a monkey and smell like one too
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- May 18, 2005
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- Churchville, MD
IMO this is one of the key differences. Its also why members of those cultures are baffled by our privatized medical system, lack of socialized plans for elderly care and such.
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- Apr 16, 2005
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- Sharon, SC
I think we agree about 99.5% here.
I also think that to be intellectually honest we as a group of gun loving people need to be careful to not hyperbolize the bold and discredit ourselves.
Would gun laws eliminate all mass shootings? 100% no.
Would they eliminate some - 100% yes.
So we cant say things like they wont do shit.
We can say the loss of freedom isnt worth the reward. That's a position I agree with, by the way. But there are some laws that would help. Not prevent - just reduce. (Even a reduction of 1 in a million is still a reduction)
I just happen to feel those laws arent worth the reward.
Personally I share a belief that has already been disagreed with in this thread. I think we need to stop preventing SOME bullying. I think we need to allow children to learn how to hurt and cope while they are young and harmless.
You dont wait until a dog is 200lbs to teach it not to bite. You teach it as a pup while its more easily shaped or controlled. I think we need to teach kids that some kids are more attractive some are smarter all are special and have talents but thats all have weaknesses ad all need to elannr to accept those weaknesses.
ManglerYJ
Well-Known Member
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- Mar 20, 2005
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- Lexington, NC
I touched on this a bit in my post but you will never find out the reason that crazy is crazy. School shootings seem to be more prevalent in the news in the US because there is no "what it?" shooters know that they will face little resistance in a school where there are few to no guns on site. My proposal to make it SAFER (mind you I didn't say safe, only safer) is to allow those teachers that want to be armed to take the CCW class and keep it anonymous. Then place signage that says "Teachers at this school may be armed." This takes the "easy target" mentality away because they know they may be shot themselves. Again, only for teachers that WANT to be armed. Do not force someone to own a gun that doesn't want it because that will make matters worse. Again - this will only work in instances where the shooter has some sensibility about them and hopes to escape alive. I would envision a shooter like this to be looking for retribution from someone for something they did to them. Oxford, Michigan school shooter seems to be the closest to this in my mind.
Unfortunately, most shooters are stone cold crazy and this dude in Texas seems to fit that mark. From preliminary news reports, he talked about shooting up the school before he did it, but also said he shot his grandmother. Total whack-job with pent-up misplaced anger. Some of the "signs" that the news is showing now like sending pictures of high capacity magazines in Instagram posts. Here is where we have to ride the line between the rights of various groups. I do not know the context of the discussion, but posting a picture of a high capacity magazine in and of itself is not illegal. We can infer that they may use that high capacity magazine to shoot people, but unless he specifically said something like, "I'm going to shoot you, and see here are the bullets I'm going to use," then a crime has not been committed and it's just internet cock-waggling. So what can we do? Do we go full Karen and contact the police/FBI to warn them of possible threats like these? If so, where does it end? If someone continues to skirt the line between a threat and "just fooling about", then how do we know when it's time to react and when it's time to wait it out?
Do we want to get to a point where "see something, tell someone" becomes an acceptable means of harassment? This should resonate well with this crowd. If someone sees that you bought 1000 rounds of 9mm just because it was on sale for $5 cheaper than last week, is that justification for telling the police that you are "stockpiling ammunition"? That's not far off from the next link in the chain, reporting the guy with a $25,000 a year salary for buying a $80,000 SUV that you know he can't afford without him doing some illegal stuff. Or following and shooting a jogger just because you don't recognize him and you don't think he lives there because his skin color doesn't match yours. Or perhaps filling out a FISA warrant to wiretap a private citizen in the "hopes" of capturing something illegal because you just KNOW that something illegal is going on.
My point in all this is that the legal system is set up to arrest people for crimes AFTER they commit them. It's not there to guess at what people might do and for what reason they might commit them. The problem comes in when you have caught them and arrested them only for the legal system to churn them back out onto the streets. There needs to be a "what-if" that's bad enough for it to not be worth it for criminals. Prison needs to be a bad enough deterrent for crime. It needs to suck. It needs to be hell. North Carolina just approved $30 million to put air conditioning into prisons. What in the actual @#$%@*&?
Monkeynono
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- Dec 19, 2018
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- Mars Hill
I was picked on, teased by classmates and teachers alike. BUT NEVER did I ever believe that hurting someone else or shooting up a school or mall of whatever was ever an answer let alone killing little kids who had absolute fucking zero to do with this assholes problems.
There is more at play here then just no parents. People for centuries have been victims of abuse, neglect, assault, drug use ect. But why is this mass shootings only started in the last 20yrs or so? I will throw my blame at Social media whether warranted or not
What was his malfunction that lead him believe this was an answer? Remove the guns from the equation, you have a person that wanted what? If he didn't have them would he have never hurt anyone? Would he have found another way? What is the objective? Why young kids? Who gains from this who loses?
I came from NJ we had some of the most restrictive gun laws and even those don't stop people from doing evil shit, more gun laws aren't going to fix the mentally unstable people who do this.
There is more at play here then just no parents. People for centuries have been victims of abuse, neglect, assault, drug use ect. But why is this mass shootings only started in the last 20yrs or so? I will throw my blame at Social media whether warranted or not
What was his malfunction that lead him believe this was an answer? Remove the guns from the equation, you have a person that wanted what? If he didn't have them would he have never hurt anyone? Would he have found another way? What is the objective? Why young kids? Who gains from this who loses?
I came from NJ we had some of the most restrictive gun laws and even those don't stop people from doing evil shit, more gun laws aren't going to fix the mentally unstable people who do this.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2005
- Location
- Hendersonville, NC
I dig.
I'll clarify by stating "won't do shit to stop criminals."
Will they potentially deter some ramdom dooder from legally purchasing a weapon and ammo (with aforementioned additional steps introduced)? Maybe.
Will they deter someone who ismentally unstable in the firsst place? Probably not.
This is good convo here. I was looking for our thread on the subject. Glad I found it today.
DSM Turbos
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2006
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
Mass Shootings by Country 2024
worldpopulationreview.com
Murder rate by country 2023 | Statista
El Salvador was the murder capital of the world as of 2023 in terms of murder rate. Latin American countries dominate the list.
The first link doesn't really speak to how many evil people vs other places. It is based on how many people killed in each event.
One thing great about data, you can make it tell the story you want it to.
It might stop some of them, will it stop all? No, but most of gun violence in schools I would bet aren't from illegally obtained weapons. Not disagreeing which what you have said overall though. Parents also often now have to have both parents work because of how expensive it is to raise a family. Which leads to less time to focus on your family.
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DSM Turbos
Well-Known Member
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- Feb 25, 2006
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- Raleigh, NC
You can't compare your bullying to what some other experience. You can't compare what you were able to overcome with what somebody else is or isn't able to overcome.
We aren't all built from the same cloth, call these people not "tough enough" all you want, but we aren't all the same and we handle situations all differently.
skyhighZJ
Gov retirement < needs to live
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- May 31, 2012
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- Aberdeen, NC.
Has anyone seen or questioned where a kid of this age who lives at home with his mom came up with the money to buy those rifles?? Seems sketchy how he even could afford to buy them. I only say that because I have nothing on the aspect of preventing it besides I firmly believe teachers have no business being armed. They have to much other shit to worry about other than defending their wards.
DSM Turbos
Well-Known Member
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- Feb 25, 2006
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
Honest question. Maybe tough to answer though.
Are the people that often do mass shootings "criminals" or are they more in the mentally unstable bucket?
I tend to lean to the mentally unstable. To me a criminal will find a way to break the laws to find a gun when they need one, the mentally unstable person is often looking for an easy way out. Obtaining a gun illegally isn't very "easy" to a most of society. Hell, I have no idea where I would start if I wanted one
It goes a lot to Ron post I think it was, what happens when that teacher is overtaken by a strong student before they can pull the gun out, then takes the weapon shoots the teacher and others in the school, and they didn't have a weapon before that. I think that is the biggest fear many have, and why many are against it.
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- Mar 20, 2005
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- Hendersonville, NC
As long as there are ever how many hundreds of millions of guns in the US, nothing, and I mean nothing, will stop the illegal sale, tranfer, whatever of them should they become illegal.
DSM Turbos
Well-Known Member
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- Feb 25, 2006
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
Its really hard to imagine also, but what would you think if you kids school just had this happen and your child was killed? Its almost impossible to think what you would do, but to many parents this hits really close to home. And why some parents are asking for them to try SOMETHING, ANYTHING even if its not perfect.
drkelly
Dipstick who put two vehicles on jack stands
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2005
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- Oak Ridge/Stokesdale, NC
I don't think armed teachers and signs out front about armed teachers would prevent the crazy mass shooters from coming to schools. It might reduce the number of kids killed but only if enough of the teachers are carrying to make a difference. Thinking of all my teachers in the past, and my son's teachers today, I can think of only one who would have probably willingly carried a gun. I don't think any of the killers are thinking they will go kill a bunch of kids, then leave and get away with it.