My 2nd time/experience at The Flats!! AWESOME.

drkelly said:
It was nice to meet you. I think you could have made it up 'Twist It' and possibly 'The Ledge' last Saturday. I think 'The Ledge' could be renamed to 'Flex It' due to all the alternating holes after you get over what is left of the ledge. Last weekend was the first time I made it up both of those trails after years of trying. The conditions were just right. I also think you could have made it up '3-way' possibly needing to winch 20 ft past one section about 1/4-1/3 of the way up. I made it, but had to winch just a short section about that far in. You should keep your eyes open for a used winch. It will allow you to try more of the trails there without becoming a trail plug and pissing people off.
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Well GOOD NEWS!!! i'm picking up 8" springs next week and 8" leaf springs also from a good friend i met at the Flats sooo...my jeep with these tires should then be able to do Twist It and some others but last saturday, that same friend with a buggy told me with my current suspension setup wasn't going to work to well so i agreed and stayed away..but i knew that since it's such a cheap build but I got 8" lift coming with proper springs, shocks, and leafs too so this thing should do even better since i won't be carrying tires everywhere. I've never owned a jeep i wheeled with a winch just cause with what little money i invest, i put it in other places that i know and believe will do be better. Plus, this sounds stupid but i just am not fond of winching up stuff....i know i'm weird but i always thought if i can't make it up something with my rig, than not worth trying/doing it cause i (again probably stupid) just look at winching as cheating and no fun...having that said there are times that yes, a winch is useful if you can make the whole trail but one spot u can't but still made an accomplishment. I hope you make it back out there the next time we go so we can wheel together and if not you, then i'm sure i would find someone with a winch in front of me (or behind i guess too) that could help me on some of those reds you mentioned. I'm not trying to be like some hot shot, but i really think with bigger lift, proper articulation, good throttle control, and my tires being even better cut....i really think i could tackle half the reds out there (and several others seem to think the same thing) as long as i continue to use good technique and throttle response. So far, i have not had to get above 2500rpms on any of the trails i tackled and that's with hardly no flex and frame rails hitting in several places. Traction..Traction..Traction has always been my motto and strong belief and i think over time, i will continue to prove to many that good proper grip tires can take you farther than anything else on the trail!!
 
Glad you had such a good time. A winch is one of the items everyone should have. Kinda like a first aid kit, a spare tire, and a fire extinguisher.

A winch will allow you to push yourself to the limit. When you find that limit, you pull cable and continue. If you don't ever pull cable, you aren't wheeling hard enough. Going beyond that comfort zone will allow you to learn not only where your capabilities are, but grow beyond them.

And now....back to your regularly scheduled program.
 
I wouldn't go as far as saying you're not wheeling hard enough if your not winching: that's just it (personally): it's not about how hard you wheel, how hard you spin/bounce/pull/push/etc...i strongly believe it's more about how well whatever you build can tackle a certain terrain with the least amount of force applied to reduce breakage, fatigue, wear, and getting stuck or all the above. I have many many times in my life weather in person or videos seen guys power up stuff, going crazy showing off, sliding/bouncing/jumping/more bouncing but then have seen same trail and same conditions i've seen guys come along crawling or easing right through same scenario because of either better tires, better gearing, better throttle control, or all the above and I "personally" want to always be that guy so i will always build my rig to do just that. Wheelspin is in fact needed in certain scenarios and type of trails but most generally speaking, i think spinning the hell out of it us usually more for fun/show than it is for effectiveness.
My goal in my XJ: have 8-9" lift with really good articulation eventually, 38" real real cut aggresive tires with bead locks, my 8.25, the 760u-joint D30 (just for better piece of mind than my 260xjoint ones), 231/231 cases, and few more mods to engine and with this setup comparing to my current cheapo build, it should take me through half of the red trails at the Flats and if i can achieve that (which with that setup i strongly believe i can), i would be more than happy with myself, my jeep, my driving technique and my level of fun.
 
Oh yeah, no freaking videos as today i went to camera store to get tape put on DVD and go figure the camcorder i borrowed didn't work... apparently it has a bad head in it and made the videos come out blurry and distorted :kaioken::kaioken::kaioken::kaioken::kaioken: 42minutes of awesome video footage that my wife worked so hard to get and now gone....freaking gone. I'm so mad right now it's not even ........................................................................:kaioken::kaioken::kaioken:
 
A couple points, and I'm not picking on you here just sharing my thoughts.

1- a winch is as much about trail manners as anything. I agree you should never go into an obstacle you expect to winch through. But if you can't make it or if you have an unexpected break down, then what? Should everyone else's wheeling day be ruined because a trail is plugged? Should folks just go off trail to get around you? Should someone else be required to which you out? I'll help anyone out if they need it, I just hate the thought that someone would go on the trail unprepared expecting to depend on others.
2- its one thing to wheel the 30 on the 35s...step up to 38s and ill take a bet how that ends your first trip to the flats.
3- I hate to beat this drum, and I mean in now wa to discount what you have done at the flats in your two trips. But you have seen that place at it's absolute easiest. Let it rain and Laurel Lane is fun (though definitely do able) for built rigs. And that's before you even think about the reds. Heck I saw ole stumpy literally eat and spit out a $100k rig one time. Almost started a fight. Lol. Lots of folks will remember that one. There is no such thing as traction in marion nc in the rain. If it's wet wheel speed is required to get out of the parking lot.

But good luck can't wait to watch you when you get it built.
 
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^^^ hit the nail on the head I have been going to flats for a few years this is the first time I have ever seen it dry when it rains or has rained in the last week You will have a extreamy hard time your experience at the flats is not the norm just a warning to be carful
 
71chevytruckguy said:
@John Fuller , as other have said, 38s on 30/8.25 is asking way too much.
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This. Stick with your cut 35's. Don't lift your XJ anymore. It's got a good amount of lift for those tires. Just get longer shocks and whatever else it needs so it flexes to its full potential. Spend the money on a winch. You will be better off. There will always be a rock dragging on the belly of your rig. My Samurai is VERY low, so I drag all over the place. I just let it bang and drag and go around the bigger rocks.
 
And saying your not gonna brake and not being prepared is just stupid. Having a winch is part of being prepared you may brake where no one can safely or easily get to you then what do you do?
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I broke my cross pin on sunday, and had to winch other wise I would have drove on out. Let's just say your half way up sthil hill for example and brake a shaft or loss brakes. It's not gonna be fun backing down it its steep and tight and a little off camper going backwards down hill isnt fun I know cause I've done it. Most of the time someone can get a strap to you and your good but you need to be able to self recover.
 
Ron said:
A couple points, and I'm not picking on you here just sharing my thoughts.

1- a winch is as much about trail manners as anything. I agree you should never go into an obstacle you expect to winch through. But if you can't make it or if you have an unexpected break down, then what? Should everyone else's wheeling day be ruined because a trail is plugged? Should folks just go off trail to get around you? Should someone else be required to which you out? I'll help anyone out if they need it, I just hate the thought that someone would go on the trail unprepared expecting to depend on others.
2- its one thing to wheel the 30 on the 35s...step up to 38s and ill take a bet how that ends your first trip to the flats.
3- I hate to beat this drum, and I mean in now wa to discount what you have done at the flats in your two trips. But you have seen that place at it's absolute easiest. Let it rain and Laurel Lane is fun (though definitely do able) for built rigs. And that's before you even think about the reds. Heck I saw ole stumpy literally eat and spit out a $100k rig one time. Almost started a fight. Lol. Lots of folks will remember that one. There is no such thing as traction in marion nc in the rain. If it's wet wheel speed is required to get out of the parking lot.

But good luck can't wait to watch you when you get it built.
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all very good points and I am very very well aware of the rain factor and that is why i hope it does rain next time cause this last trip the yellows were way too easy but FUN so i realize on wet muddy day, the yellows will keep me busy enough and probably ur right, wouldn't have time to think of the reds. On the winch note...that is the main and only reason i did not do any reds this trip because i def don't want to piss people off not being properly equipped to self recover. Until i get to know some folks who i can wheel with and be friends, i have been sticking to myself and staying out of everyones way (trying to at least, especially the buggy crowd...don't wanna get run over). I have about 120ft of chains but i know that is not good enough. I hope this thread didn't come off bragging cause for me, everything i did on this last trip even though dry, is the most coolest trials so it just made me real happy and proud to be doing those trails.
 
drkelly said:
This. Stick with your cut 35's. Don't lift your XJ anymore. It's got a good amount of lift for those tires. Just get longer shocks and whatever else it needs so it flexes to its full potential. Spend the money on a winch. You will be better off. There will always be a rock dragging on the belly of your rig. My Samurai is VERY low, so I drag all over the place. I just let it bang and drag and go around the bigger rocks.
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so you really think 8 is too high...that's only about 3"higher than now but would give me real good articulation since the lift is broke in and not new where it's all stiff...
 
i'm ready for the rain wet trails at the flats now LOL LOL. check these bad boys out now...they were good/impressive before but now this is another 7hours per tire later to be even more impressive and i did this just for the wetness factor: the baddest Thornbird You'll ever see!!! (freakin a what a pain)
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i got one tire done this whole week on my down time, waiting on parts, late evening hours but when all 4 are done, it will make every bit of ache and pain and blisters well worth it!!
 
Loganwayne said:
And saying your not gonna brake and not being prepared is just stupid
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i wouldn't call it stupid...i just call it knowing the limits of what you wheel and how to treat it. i know jeep axles and what they like and wheel spin is not their forte!!! with keeping rpms under 3k, my 35s weighing probably as much as 33s, diffs welded solid ball and new joints and greased religiously along with being smart...i am pretty confident and have been for long time that i can take a trip without breaking....but again i also know what to go up and what to stay away from. despite me being very easy on my jeep to keep from breaking...i am known to have a temper with my foot also when an obstacle pisses me off (LOL) and romp down on it so i have kept away form things that would "potentially" put in harry situations where i would have a chance to do so. so far what i've done with the jeep on my 2 trips, the thought of breaking doesn't even cross my mind and if you wheel with me ever,...you will see i am pretty delicate on the throttle. that's just me though and i make it work. even more so with these nobby ass tires i have to be very careful to not get lots of wheel spin cause if they catch the right way (and they do) they would snap something for sure. ball joints is the only thing that got weakened last trip from going up Easy St a dozen times and playing on Ol Stumpy several but they are original so can't complain...got new HD ones getting put on soon.
I had a guy kept trying to convince me to go up Rock Ledge and despite my desire to do so, i backed off not willing to take a risk with no spare parts and no good secure way to get out safely if something happened cause i know that ledge is not something i can "creep" up and will require some wheel spin/speed but that will wait till i get some spare 30 shafts and well, i guess the 8.25 doesn't worry me too much.
 
I broke with my foot off the throttle in 4low. Just cause you have replaced stuff and beefed them up doesn't mean they can't brake. If your not prepared to deal with that and aren't prepared then I feel your being stupid. Would you go camping with out a tent if its 50/50 chance of rain? YOU ARE GOING TO BREAK sooner or later thinking your not and not being prepared for the basic stuff is stupid. I've seen all kinds of weird things break, bend, pull/rip of frame when they looked great or where new
 
Loganwayne said:
I broke with my foot off the throttle in 4low. Just cause you have replaced stuff and beefed them up doesn't mean they can't brake. If your not prepared to deal with that and aren't prepared then I feel your being stupid. Would you go camping with out a tent if its 50/50 chance of rain? YOU ARE GOING TO BREAK sooner or later thinking your not and not being prepared for the basic stuff is stupid. I've seen all kinds of weird things break, bend, pull/rip of frame when they looked great or where new
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i hear ya on that and i do agree that crap happens...i guess i'm overly blessed to keep my jeeps in one piece every time i've gone out. Did i mention that i'm OCD when it comes to checking everything before going out...and when i mean OCD checking stuff i mean OCD checking stuff LOL. I think doing these preparations here at home on my ramp, shop, hills, prying/pushing/pulling/thumping goes a long long way to prep for the trail and since my wife and daughter ride with me, IT HAS TO BE VERY SAFE and pass a pretty strict inspection to my standards for their safety and if i can't afford to fix something, i won't wheel until it all gets fixed.
 
and Don't tell me my control arms aren't safe...LOL
 
Loganwayne said:
I broke my cross pin on sunday,
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dude i gotta ask....HOW THE HELL DO PEOPLE BRAKE THESE TYPE OF THINGS. i've ran some big ass tires and well, broken ujoints is about it but center pin....let me guess, LOCKER. that's my only conclusion is either Locker or Open Diff since i've always welded all mine solid so there's no weak points and just forces the whole thing to grenade if it does. that is mind boggling. ur the second person in last 2 trips there that broke center pin but the other guy, he was beating the hell out of it on 31s so didn't surprise me with him but u were crawling....unless other times u kinda get on it too?? there's a first time for everything i guess
 
I'm on 35s last time at the flats I set out to warranty a set of cromos nothing broke, that trip. I got the axles from a guy that ran 36s on it and didn't have a clue how old any of it was. So a hardened pin new springs and Im good to go again
 
^^^ah gotcha. that sucks i guess when buying axles from others not knowing how much abuse they've had. still the reason i like welding the carrier and everything solid...piece of mind that everything will stay together and to get one to grenade completely i think is out of my reach for my wheeling style and on 35s that weigh a lot less. hit me up next trip dude since your on 35s, I'd love to wheel along and see what i can keep up with.
 
wait there was a brawl sat night...that's why we left early cause of the drunkenness
 
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