Residential building code interpretation

jcramsey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Location
Marion, NC
Working on converting a screened in deck into an extra room at our house. Per the zoning guy... since I have a giant live oak next to my house, I cant build on a continuous footer (for the trees sake of course). He says get your engineer to put it on piers, so that's what I did. Dropped by the permit guys desk with my engineered drawings, and he points to the code and says I cant do it on piers. :rolleyes:

I see where the code says a continuous footer, but it also says other footing materials designed in accordance with accepted engineering practice. I assumed since an engineer is willing to stamp my drawings that this is in accordance with accepted engineering practice.

Is the permit guy on a power trip or is this reasonable?


R403.1.2.jpg
 
Ask the engineer that sealed the drawings.
 
Most anytime we do anything that is standard practice for the building inspector to see they ask for a engineered stamped drawing. With that the liability falls on the engineer so they are usually fine with that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
RatLabGuy said:
Talk to the zoning guy. Get him to talk to the permit guy. Buy both of them a beer.
Click to expand...

Before I left, permit guy said he was going to talk to zoning guy. Although his words were "I don't care anything about that tree"...and I know the only thing the zoning guy cares about is that tree. If it could be fixed with a couple beers, I'd buy for sure!

Loganwayne said:
Most anytime we do anything that is standard practice for the building inspector to see they ask for a engineered stamped drawing. With that the liability falls on the engineer so they are usually fine with that.
Click to expand...

That was my thought too...if the engineer is willing to stamp it I figured I should be good to go. Engineer called me today and said permit guy basically told him to "prove that what he's designed will work". I think his internal response was "prove to me that it won't :lol:", but he's keeping it civil for now. Hoping to talk to someone with a little more authority to get it sorted out.
 
shawn said:
Sounds like Charleston.
Click to expand...
Nope... Lots of shit built on piers around here.

What I do not like about what you are doing is you are switching stuff up. Your house should be on a continuous footer but your addition will be on piers. That is two different bases that could lead to issues. Not sure if the guy is concerned with that or he is just a code dummy and is reading the book too much. If the engineer stamped it, you should be good to go.
 
BigGreenMonster said:
Nope... Lots of shit built on piers around here.

What I do not like about what you are doing is you are switching stuff up. Your house should be on a continuous footer but your addition will be on piers. That is two different bases that could lead to issues. Not sure if the guy is concerned with that or he is just a code dummy and is reading the book too much. If the engineer stamped it, you should be good to go.
Click to expand...


If I could build on a slab/footer I would. I’ve got a 36 inch oak beside my deck that is more valuable to the city than my life though. Based on its size and water/air requirements I can’t just trench out a footer or pour a slab, per the zoning guy.
 
jcramsey said:
If I could build on a slab/footer I would. I’ve got a 36 inch oak beside my deck that is more valuable to the city than my life though. Based on its size and water/air requirements I can’t just trench out a footer or pour a slab, per the zoning guy.
Click to expand...

I get that. I would hate to cut down or damage a big oak. I do not see why the permitting guy is giving you grief if your plan is stamped by an engineer.
 
I called permit office today just to check in and talk to the building inspector again myself. I mentioned the above code that he had previously showed me and and asked him about the language of "Other footing materials or systems shall be designed in accordance with accepted engineering practice". He said "accepted engineering practice" meant that the building inspector accepts it. o_O

At least I know what I'm dealing with now.:rolleyes:
 
jcramsey said:
I called permit office today just to check in and talk to the building inspector again myself. I mentioned the above code that he had previously showed me and and asked him about the language of "Other footing materials or systems shall be designed in accordance with accepted engineering practice". He said "accepted engineering practice" meant that the building inspector accepts it. o_O

At least I know what I'm dealing with now.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Engineer trumps inspector day in day out. We’ve went to court over this with the city of Asheville.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ahj...

inspector wins
 
Loganwayne said:
Engineer trumps inspector day in day out. We’ve went to court over this with the city of Asheville.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thats good to hear....would rather not have to take anything to court though! But just for the sake of conversation, what sort of action can you take against the city? Can I throw in some "pain and suffering" too? :D
 
Ron said:
ahj...

inspector wins
Click to expand...

Exactly. Sucks but it is this way. Heaven forbid you go to the state for an interpretation. You might get your way this time but it will come back 1to bite in the ass in the future.

I have had some luck with inspectors working with us if the engineer provides a stamped drawing but some others like to flex their muscles.
 
Are you talking to an inspector or the building department office staff? We had a lady in the office that made it almost impossible for a man to go in and get a permit pulled. We could send the pm assistant and she would always walk with a permit.
I’d ask to speak with the head building inspector and the zoning guy in a meeting to discuss, possibly bringing the engineer along with you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
My new BIL is an inspector down that way. I think he has his own company though. Around here I thought they were all government employee's.
 
Everytime I hear svoab someone fighting a building inspector and winning... From that point on, EVERYTHING is a battle. So if you are a home owner and do not regularly pull permits... Go for it. If you are in the business... Think twice. Just sayin
 
Loganwayne said:
Are you talking to an inspector or the building department office staff? We had a lady in the office that made it almost impossible for a man to go in and get a permit pulled. We could send the pm assistant and she would always walk with a permit.
I’d ask to speak with the head building inspector and the zoning guy in a meeting to discuss, possibly bringing the engineer along with you.
Click to expand...

I've been talking to an inspector. Technically his title is Plans Examiner, so he is the one that determines if my engineered plans are ok. He may do inspections too. Engineer is working on revising the drawings....with more engineering language to satisfy the "prove it to me" mindset. We will see how that goes.

BigGreenMonster said:
Everytime I hear svoab someone fighting a building inspector and winning... From that point on, EVERYTHING is a battle. So if you are a home owner and do not regularly pull permits... Go for it. If you are in the business... Think twice. Just sayin
Click to expand...

Not in the business, just trying to add a few more square feet to our 1500 sq ft house so we can actually have room for visitors after the next baby comes....in two weeks. I think the next step is to go over his head to a supervisor or something...but like you said, it will probably be a fight from then on.
 
jcramsey said:
his title is Plans Examiner
Click to expand...

Typically The permit approval process is separate from inspections approval, and you won't really run a risk of burned bridges down the road during installation inspection by challenging the examiners "interpretation" of the code.

jcramsey said:
the next step is to go over his head to a supervisor or something
Click to expand...

THIS is typically the next step. But it's generally done BY The engineer. If this engineer has worked in that area they SHOULD be familiar with who they are dealing with. "going over their head" is usually just a call to the supervisor asking:

Good morning Bob....how was your vacation in the bahama's? You ready for retirement on that big boat....and OH YEAH, I had a little issue with "Frank" on a small residential job, have you got a second to talk about that? Yadda yadda, any idea what I may need to do to win Frank over? ETC... (just short of buying Bob AND Frank their favorite bourbon....well, at least don't DELIVER said bourbon to their office :cool:)
​
Typically Bob may then go to Frank and "encourage" him to reconsider, or reach a compromise.

If the engineer really DOES have to make an official trip "over Franks head" then it gets in the way of the engineers future reputation for approvals across Franks desk.
 
jcramsey said:
Is the permit guy on a power trip or is this reasonable?
Click to expand...

I checked the code. You're fukt. 2012 only required continuous footings at exterior walls above shear panels. 2015 requires them at all exterior walls in seismic design categories D0, D1, and D2 (which is you, because Charleston).
 
Back
Top