So who here got the dreaded Underage ticket in college?

[Will Carter]

I think he's learned his lesson guys...


...next time he'll bounce out the window...



...oh, and as always, watch out for bullets.

 

[Macdaddy4738]

I think he's learned his lesson guys...
...next time he'll bounce out the window...
...oh, and as always, watch out for bullets.

Indeed. I wont be sticking around the next time.

 

[Ron]

Wow, some of you guys just looove to take it up the ass from the government, don't you? I'm all for personal responsibility and manning up for your actions, but some of the comments in here are just ridiculous.
Being a sheep and just "following the law" is what's caused so many stupid laws to be made in the first place and cost us so many personal freedoms.
Bottom line, I'm not saying what happened in this particular situation was completely okay. I'm just really surprised to hear all of this "take it like a man, do whatever the government tells you" crap. Sometimes if you don't agree with a law, it takes actively breaking it to bring about any change. Our country is founded on those actions!
It sounds like to me he's mostly handled it like a responsible person so far. He stayed behind to accept his ticket, he's looked into hiring a lawyer to protect his interests (which is his RIGHT), and he seems prepared to accept some sort of punishment.
I think those of you arguing about joining the military vs. going to college vs. going to work in some other industry have missed one MAJOR point. We have a draft in this country. Last time I checked, colleges and other businesses don't. That means you can be FORCED to go die for your country, but you can't drink a beer? I support the draft, but I find that logic flawed.
My advice is to see if you can take a drug/alcohol class. I know they offer one around here and it's the most common way to minimize any future/permanent impact. As long as you complete it, it doesn't go on your record.

Spot on.

Look at it like this.

The system allows you to contact an attorney.
Legal precedence has been established that makes it ok for a lawyer to plead for a lesser sentence.

At this point it is HIS choice and right to go about it either way.

As far as all the be a man crap, in life as I have grown and matured I have learned a few lessons.

Real strength comes from Power, influence and persuasion. It doesnt matter how "strong" you think you are or how good you can fight, fuck with the wrong guy on he wrong night and you will learn that physics dictates that lead propelled by the use of an explosive is stronger than flesh. It might make you right and him a puss, but he will be an alive puss and you will be a dead righteous person live with it.

Next, the ability to fight has nothing to do with one's worth as a man or one's true strength. Try watching your best friend lie in a hospital bed hanging on his last breath at the ripe old age of 27 and tell his wife that he hopes she one day re marries because he wouldnt want her to be lonely. Suddenly who can kick whose shit doesnt mean much.

Finally, a man is wise and resourceful. Its what separates us from animals. In this case using wisdom and resources to minimize the damage to his life doesnt change his value as a man one bit. Neither would paying the fine and moving on. All this crap about paying fines is just that its authoritarian sheep garbage. Face it whether or not he pays a lawyer or a judge doesnt change whether or not he learns the lesson... That is a separate argument.

Will he learn from his "mistake"?
I doubt it.
Regardless what course of action he takes, I am betting he will drink again before his 21st birthday. And in doing so he is accepting the responsibility of his actions. If he gets caught he will either get fined or hire a lawyer again (possibly both). But that doesnt make him irresponsible.

Sitting here bitching about what happens and crying about having to pay the fine or hiring a lawyer would be irresponsible. If anything he seems more than willing to pay the piper and fix his actions. Just because he doesnt choose the road you would doesnt make him a bad person.

One last question. How many of the pay the piper guys here actually were ticketed with the same offense?

If so does any part of your advice come from a pang of regret?

if not, the how in the hell can you cast judgement upon an individual when you havent walked in his shoes.

Alrright I am done.....I needed that

 

[RufusTheRam]

CAS22 and Reed:

I fully expect to see some proof the next time you get a ticket for something of you walking up to the judge and telling him to give you the maximum penalty allowed. That is the "right" thing to do, afterall.

Or wait, I'll bet you never break the law...

 

[Reed]

Break it all the time. Not once did I say that he shouldn't go get a lawyer to go get out of it. My take is, if you get caught, just say ok, get out of it and not worry about it. There's no use saying it all stupid, thats not gonna change anything. Whats the point of bitching about it if you are gonna do it anyways? I'm rather distraught right now if none of that makes sense, blow me

 

[Diane]

I dont want a class 2 misdemeanor sticking on my record and possibly preventing me from a job further down the road

I guess you should have thought about that before you started your little dorm room booze party...

Your actions have consequences, it's a life lessen that most of us learn an an early age, sorry it took you so long to figure it out.

 

[Will Carter]

Break it all the time. Not once did I say that he shouldn't go get a lawyer to go get out of it. My take is, if you get caught, just say ok, get out of it and not worry about it. There's no use saying it all stupid, thats not gonna change anything. Whats the point of bitching about it if you are gonna do it anyways? I'm rather distraught right now if none of that makes sense, blow me

Looks like you're breaking the law right now from that essay...

 

[RufusTheRam]

I'm rather distraught right now if none of that makes sense, blow me

sorry dude, oral sex is illegal in nc. i'm sure you'd "take it like a man" though.

 

[InfantryYJ]

Bottom line, I'm not saying what happened in this particular situation was completely okay. I'm just really surprised to hear all of this "take it like a man, do whatever the government tells you" crap. Sometimes if you don't agree with a law, it takes actively breaking it to bring about any change. Our country is founded on those actions!

Oh ya, him being under 21, getting caught drinking is going to bring about a change in that law, nope, doubt it will ever happen. "extreme alert",....so, I guess murderers, rapists and child molesters should continue to break the law to bring about change,....see, doesn't work well does it You can argue apples and oranges all day, but the bottom line is that we're still talking about a law being broken

It sounds like to me he's mostly handled it like a responsible person so far. He stayed behind to accept his ticket, he's looked into hiring a lawyer to protect his interests (which is his RIGHT), and he seems prepared to accept some sort of punishment.

Yes, maybe some sort of punishment, but hoping the lawyer gets him off is more what he's trying to get it sounds like,....just like murderers, rapist and child molesters

I think those of you arguing about joining the military vs. going to college vs. going to work in some other industry have missed one MAJOR point. We have a draft in this country. Last time I checked, colleges and other businesses don't. That means you can be FORCED to go die for your country, but you can't drink a beer? I support the draft, but I find that logic flawed.

No, we have a registration for a draft, and there will not be a draft unless Congress votes it in, and last I saw, a majority vote will not pass under current conditions, it would take an actual invasion of this country to get congress to agree to reinstate the draft And no, you cannot be forced to go die for your country, even with a draft, if you refuse to fight, refuse to deploy, you have to accept the consequences of those actions-which is that refusal, during time of war, that could be execution, but the military hasn't executed anyone in forever, so, you'll get to spend time in a military brig for refusal of orders,....oh, you'll also get a lawyer at no expense to try to "get you off"


I'm not without fault, but in my faults, I have accepted responsibility for my actions, I didn't try to get a lesser fine/charge/reduction/thrown out, for me, it's all about integrity, if judges would have imposed maximum penalty, so be it, that's the punishment I deserved for my wrong doing. You call that "sheep", I call it responsibility and if responsibility makes me a sheep, so be it.

The problem I see personally and read about is that people are more concerned about getting out of something they knowingly did was wrong with the least amount of punishment or off completely, instead of having personal integrity and accepting the consequences of their actions,...I feel it's the pussification of this country. The planet knows OJ did it, yet his lawyers got him off, justice is served

 

[chuckwhut]

I guess you should have thought about that before you started your little dorm room booze party...
Your actions have consequences, it's a life lessen that most of us learn an an early age, sorry it took you so long to figure it out.

Indeed. I wont be sticking around the next time.

he hasn't figured it out yet.

 

[RufusTheRam]

Oh ya, him being under 21, getting caught drinking is going to bring about a change in that law, nope, doubt it will ever happen. "extreme alert",....

yeah, you're right... we should all just sit back, and follow the rules. don't make any fuss about anything, wouldn't want to get in trouble. just keep letting the government run us over.

so, I guess murderers, rapists and child molesters should continue to break the law to bring about change,....see, doesn't work well does it You can argue apples and oranges all day, but the bottom line is that we're still talking about a law being broken

it works just fine actually. as much as i don't agree with what they do and believe it's wrong and should be illegal, if a murderer/rapist/child molester truly believes that by committing their crime they might bring about a change, more power to them. that's their choice. however, myself and other people will be doing all we can to make sure they rot in jail. we all know that's not going to ever change though, you're using an extreme example. a lower drinking age IS something that could and has happened before.

Yes, maybe some sort of punishment, but hoping the lawyer gets him off is more what he's trying to get it sounds like,....just like murderers, rapist and child molesters

okay, so by your logic we should just eliminate half of our justice system. no right to a defense, just go straight to the judge and take your sentence. it's all about a process. we have to go through it, guilty or innocent to keep things in check. it's not about just trying to get out of things.

No, we have a registration for a draft, and there will not be a draft unless Congress votes it in, and last I saw, a majority vote will not pass under current conditions, it would take an actual invasion of this country to get congress to agree to reinstate the draft And no, you cannot be forced to go die for your country, even with a draft, if you refuse to fight, refuse to deploy, you have to accept the consequences of those actions-which is that refusal, during time of war, that could be execution, but the military hasn't executed anyone in forever, so, you'll get to spend time in a military brig for refusal of orders,....oh, you'll also get a lawyer at no expense to try to "get you off"

that's just a whole lot of babble. i agree a lot would have to happen, but my point still stands. all you did was prove it basically.

I'm not without fault, but in my faults, I have accepted responsibility for my actions, I didn't try to get a lesser fine/charge/reduction/thrown out, for me, it's all about integrity, if judges would have imposed maximum penalty, so be it, that's the punishment I deserved for my wrong doing. You call that "sheep", I call it responsibility and if responsibility makes me a sheep, so be it.

i think it's great you believe in responsibility and integrity. so do i. where we differ is i draw the line at just letting the government do as it pleases and i'll just follow along. i understand you've probably had the military mentality to follow orders and do as the government tells you ingrained, but that's no excuse to go through life blind.

The problem I see personally and read about is that people are more concerned about getting out of something they knowingly did was wrong with the least amount of punishment or off completely, instead of having personal integrity and accepting the consequences of their actions

i don't think that's the case here. Macdaddy has admitted to doing something wrong, and he seems prepared to take some level of punishment for it. what i'm also gathering is that he doesn't agree with such a stiff statute. he's well within his rights to fight that in court, and by all means should. it has nothing to do with not accepting responsibility.

lets say the allowable punishment for speeding is castration. you also had the right to hire a lawyer, and fight for a reduced charge/penalty. what would you do? are you irresponsible just because you don't want your penis cut off? i think not.

 

[Macdaddy4738]

seriously, all you guys (and apparently girls) who keep stressing to me the point of "what i did was wrong" fuck you.

You cant say to me that youve never drank underage, and if you do, im going to say your a huge liar. I was one of MANY, and one of the unlucky ones who got caught, not because I was hurting anyone, but because I had a guy who felt he needed to do something to apparently get back at me.

I havent learned what i did was wrong, because I think having to be 21 to drink is a crock of shit. I can go to Iraq (or wherever the hell they decide to send me) and get my legs blown off, im trusted enough to vote for the next president of the united states, but im not trusted enough to drink a few beers now and then?

So all of you who keep trying to lay down the law, and complain that I should have known what I was doing was wrong according to law, get this through your thick head, IM FULLY FUCKING AWARE. What Im also aware of, is that I have a chance at a good job farther down the line. Just because YOU fucked up because YOU did something stupid, is no reason to be condescending and a general asshole.

So I ask, from this point on, if you have nothing worth while to post, just shut up and go back to being a regular stick in the mud.

 

[chuckwhut]

I havent learned what i did was wrong, because I think having to be 21 to drink is a crock of shit. I can go to Iraq (or wherever the hell they decide to send me) and get my legs blown off, im trusted enough to vote for the next president of the united states, but im not trusted enough to drink a few beers now and then?

fuck it, go to iraq then. quit throwin that up as an excuse if it doesn't apply to you.

and if that is your best argument, then don't hire a lawyer, just tell it to the judge and i'm sure he'll let you off.

i can't judge anyone, it's not my place. but i simply stated you did not learn your lesson because you obviously have no intention of changing how you act. which is fine, that's your choice. i don't care. i'm just stating the facts.

and the fact is, you sound like a little bitch right now.

 

[Joel]

fuck it, go to iraq then. quit throwin that up as an excuse if it doesn't apply to you.

and if that is your best argument, then don't hire a lawyer, just tell it to the judge and i'm sure he'll let you off.

i can't judge anyone, it's not my place. but i simply stated you did not learn your lesson because you obviously have no intention of changing how you act. which is fine, that's your choice. i don't care. i'm just stating the facts.

and the fact is, you sound like a little bitch right now.

x2

I couldn't care less about getting caught drinking underage or hiring a lawyer, that is how our justice system works. But the constant whining from this turd like he is some sort of victim is bugging the hell out of me. Kinda reminds me of the kids that always got the shit kicked out of them on the playground for being little bitches.

 

[RufusTheRam]

seriously, all you guys (and apparently girls) who keep stressing to me the point of "what i did was wrong" fuck you.

You cant say to me that youve never drank underage, and if you do, im going to say your a huge liar. I was one of MANY, and one of the unlucky ones who got caught, not because I was hurting anyone, but because I had a guy who felt he needed to do something to apparently get back at me.

I havent learned what i did was wrong, because I think having to be 21 to drink is a crock of shit. I can go to Iraq (or wherever the hell they decide to send me) and get my legs blown off, im trusted enough to vote for the next president of the united states, but im not trusted enough to drink a few beers now and then?

So all of you who keep trying to lay down the law, and complain that I should have known what I was doing was wrong according to law, get this through your thick head, IM FULLY FUCKING AWARE. What Im also aware of, is that I have a chance at a good job farther down the line. Just because YOU fucked up because YOU did something stupid, is no reason to be condescending and a general asshole.

So I ask, from this point on, if you have nothing worth while to post, just shut up and go back to being a regular stick in the mud.

i think as long as you understand that staying back and taking the ticket was the right/responsible thing to do, you've learned the important lesson. beyond that, it's simply a personal decision based on your particular views and beliefs. if you feel like it's a stupid law, fight it in court. if you think the laws are okay, don't do anything.

while i can understand your frustration, i don't think the "fuck you" to everyone is neccessary. even though we don't all agree and it seems like people are coming down on you, most everyone is posting with good intentions.

 

[FishHunt]

Has the sponsor of "Macdaddy4738" made any contact with him?

I quote from the 'stickies' -
"To sponsor someone: You are promising to talk to them when they are acting inappropriately, and to take responsibility for their actions."

<><Fish

 

[RufusTheRam]

i'm his sponsor. the only thing i feel like he's done out of line was his last post, which i addressed.

 

[Macdaddy4738]

i'm his sponsor. the only thing i feel like he's done out of line was his last post, which i addressed.

Agreed, sorry about the language. I just get pissed when people attempt to judge me based on something that they honestly know nothing about.

I wasnt hurting anyone, I wasnt hurting the University property, and I wasnt putting anyone in danger or harming anyone. Ive always been careful with any drinking I do, and I get screwed to the wall because of a crummy room mate.

If I had been completely stupid with it, I deserve the ticket. But the fact remains that I was more than considerate to those around me, and I should have the right to fight the ticket which I plan to do. I figured there might be SOMEONE who had gotten one in college, but apparently you all are perfect..

 

[Banned User]

seriously, all you guys (and apparently girls) who keep stressing to me the point of "what i did was wrong" fuck you.
such a brave guy, you can type mean to us

You cant say to me that youve never drank underage, and if you do, im going to say your a huge liar. I have never had a drink of alcohol in my life, thats 20 years. Yes almost EVERYONE i know drinks, i have no problem with it but i never have myself. Never wanted to, never will. No drinking = no Citations. It pisses me off that people get caught, And whine and wonder why they got mad because you broke the law. Some of my friends who drink are underage, but they dont get caught because they are not stupid about it and dont put themselves in a situation where they ever could I was one of MANY, and one of the unlucky or careless ones who got caught, not because I was hurting anyone, but because I had a guy who felt he needed to do something to apparently get back at me. dont make enemies with people that can effect you

I havent learned what i did was wrong, because I think having to be 21 to drink is a crock of shit. but still a law I can go to Iraq not likely, i am in the Marines, most people i have met that are belligerent get dishonorable discharge before they get a chance to deploy(or wherever the hell they decide to send me) and get my legs blown off people who get their legs blown off are sometimes from IED's, or other things they cant help, but more often the results of people who decide that rules dont or shouldnt apply to them, just doing their own thing, not listening to rules and instructions. You dont follow rules here, you could get a citation. You dont follow directions there, you could die, im trusted enough to vote for the next president of the united states, this worries me, and no you wont find a candidate who will abolish all of the laws you dont like but im not trusted enough to drink a few beers now and then? not if your dumb enough to get caught, but then again join the military, the grunts drink all the time, at any age

So all of you who keep trying to lay down the law, and complain that I should have known what I was doing was wrong according to law, get this through your thick head, IM FULLY FUCKING AWARE. once again, good job with the mature choice of wording What Im also aware of, is that I have a chance at a good job farther down the line. Just because YOU fucked up because YOU did something stupid, is no reason to be condescending its nothing against just you, its against the way you act and a general asshole.

So I ask, from this point on, if you have nothing worth while to post, just shut up and go back to being a regular stick in the mud.so in order to not be just another stick, we should be like you? no thanks, im not the one with police on my doorstep

its not what you did that i dont like, its you acting like a middleschooler that makes you lose all respect

 

[Banned User]

Overall, Who cares if you think it is a dumb law. There is good reason for it. Most people under 21, or lots of people of any other age are not responsible, and dont act responsible.
The law was made because not everyone is responsible. Same as speed limits...lots of people can drive faster, but you have other stupid people that cant. They would wreck at high speeds. You cannot tailor a law to fit each individual citizen, you have to set the bar somewhere. I just spent the night at the huge Halloween hike on Hillsborough St. in Raleigh tonight. There were about 5,000 walking (stumbling) examples of why the drinking age should not be even as low as it is. That sucks for responsible drinkers, but PEOPLE GETTING CAUGHT BREAKING THE LAW and being stupid in general, will only spawn more laws restricting the action.

 

[jonhodges]

I can't believe that none of you highly enlightened poeple have nothing better to talk about.

 

[InfantryYJ]

yeah, you're right... we should all just sit back, and follow the rules. don't make any fuss about anything, wouldn't want to get in trouble. just keep letting the government run us over.

So tell me counselor, by him breaking this law, hiring a lawyer, getting a reduction of the sentence or thrown out, how is this going to change the law that is currently on the books. Is it the mentality that since soooo many people are breaking it that the law should be eradicated?,....is that how the thinking goes, or is it that people just want a $10 fine and 10 minutes of community service for breaking this law?

it works just fine actually. as much as i don't agree with what they do and believe it's wrong and should be illegal, if a murderer/rapist/child molester truly believes that by committing their crime they might bring about a change, more power to them. that's their choice. however, myself and other people will be doing all we can to make sure they rot in jail. we all know that's not going to ever change though, you're using an extreme example. a lower drinking age IS something that could and has happened before.

You've just got to be kidding me

okay, so by your logic we should just eliminate half of our justice system. no right to a defense, just go straight to the judge and take your sentence. it's all about a process. we have to go through it, guilty or innocent to keep things in check. it's not about just trying to get out of things.

Refer to the first answer.

that's just a whole lot of babble. i agree a lot would have to happen, but my point still stands. all you did was prove it basically.

No, you said there was a draft, when in fact there is not, there's just a registration for a draft. You said you could be FORCED to go die for your country, I said you can refuse to go, but you'd have to deal with those consequences

i think it's great you believe in responsibility and integrity. so do i. where we differ is i draw the line at just letting the government do as it pleases and i'll just follow along. i understand you've probably had the military mentality to follow orders and do as the government tells you ingrained, but that's no excuse to go through life blind.

No, I had a good parent that taught me well, it's just carried over to the military and the military has reinforces what I was taught prior to joining. The government is not doing as it pleases, it's doing what you, the voter told it to do by electing the people that vote on these laws So, if you were of age when this went into effect in the 80's, and did not vote, then you are the one to blame for this, because you did not elect someone to speak on your behalf saying that they were against it.

i don't think that's the case here. Macdaddy has admitted to doing something wrong, and he seems prepared to take some level of punishment for it. what i'm also gathering is that he doesn't agree with such a stiff statute. he's well within his rights to fight that in court, and by all means should. it has nothing to do with not accepting responsibility.

Again, yes, he is prepared to take some sort of punishment, but would ultimately want it thrown out or a big reduction in the class status,....gee, I hope when I whack an entire family that my lawyer gets it reduced to a misdemeanor and all I get is community service I'm fully prepared to take that punishment, but not the death penalty

lets say the allowable punishment for speeding is castration. you also had the right to hire a lawyer, and fight for a reduced charge/penalty. what would you do? are you irresponsible just because you don't want your penis cut off? i think not.

Let's say grasshoppers had machine guns,...would birds fuck with them? You can play the what if game forever.

The bottom line is some people are taught responsibility, some are not, some people deal with the consequences of their actions, some try to get out of those consequences like a little bitch.

 

[InfantryYJ]

seriously, all you guys (and apparently girls) who keep stressing to me the point of "what i did was wrong" fuck you.

Wow, this is nice.

You cant say to me that youve never drank underage, and if you do, im going to say your a huge liar. I was one of MANY, and one of the unlucky ones who got caught, not because I was hurting anyone, but because I had a guy who felt he needed to do something to apparently get back at me.

Did I drink when I was under 21, yep, but only where it was legal, which was ON Camp Pendleton(which was legal at that time) and overseas. When I got to Florida, no drinks for me stateside, but when I got to Spain, France, Italy, etc., I drank heavily. All of it was legal I didn't have drink at my first wedding because I was still 20!!

I havent learned what i did was wrong, because I think having to be 21 to drink is a crock of shit. I can go to Iraq (or wherever the hell they decide to send me) and get my legs blown off, im trusted enough to vote for the next president of the united states, but im not trusted enough to drink a few beers now and then?

I feel that if you're old enough to see over the hood that you should be allowed to get a driver's license, yet I don't see many 12 year olds bitching and complaining that they can't legally drive a non-farm vehicle on public roadways
As I've said before, I disagree with the law, but I'm not going to back anyone for breaking it nor will I have sympathy for anyone breaking it nor will I support someone trying to get it reduced or thrown out.
You say you haven't learned anything because you consider it stupid, so, you'll continue to break it and the next time you get caught, the punishment will be more severe, so good luck on getting the law changed before you turn 21

So all of you who keep trying to lay down the law, and complain that I should have known what I was doing was wrong according to law, get this through your thick head, IM FULLY FUCKING AWARE. What Im also aware of, is that I have a chance at a good job farther down the line. Just because YOU fucked up because YOU did something stupid, is no reason to be condescending and a general asshole.
So I ask, from this point on, if you have nothing worth while to post, just shut up and go back to being a regular stick in the mud.

Probably, from the looks of it, you'd fight a freaking speeding ticket and try to get that reduced or thrown out. Pay the fine and get on with your life. If you really feel that an underage drinking ticket is going to affect a precious job later in life, you've got bigger issues to deal with. People get elected to POTUS that have smoked dope, people get elected to POTUS that have had DUI's, so I think your little UA drinking ticket is not a problem at all for you getting hired somewhere.

 

[mbalbritton]

Overall, Who cares if you think it is a dumb law. There is good reason for it. Most people under 21, or lots of people of any other age are not responsible, and dont act responsible.
The law was made because not everyone is responsible. Same as speed limits...lots of people can drive faster, but you have other stupid people that cant. They would wreck at high speeds. You cannot tailor a law to fit each individual citizen, you have to set the bar somewhere. I just spent the night at the huge Halloween hike on Hillsborough St. in Raleigh tonight. There were about 5,000 walking (stumbling) examples of why the drinking age should not be even as low as it is. That sucks for responsible drinkers, but PEOPLE GETTING CAUGHT BREAKING THE LAW and being stupid in general, will only spawn more laws restricting the action.

You are SO Spot on in my opinion. Having Grown up in Europe with a Drinking age of 16, I was at the Bar on the weekends during High school. When I came to the States for College, I was absolutely AMAZED at how Immature and irresponsible my peers were. We weren't even that stupid in High school.

But something that makes a VAST difference between here and there is you Drink at 16, and drive at 18 in the majority of Countries. So you learn to handle your alcohol first then drive..... BUT! Big BUT here, the Public Transportation if FAR superior and much easier since things aren't as spread out there.

But overall, the main point point is the difference in the Maturity level, and I did not see it in College nor do I see it now.

 

[Ron]

If you really feel that an underage drinking ticket is going to affect a precious job later in life, you've got bigger issues to deal with. People get elected to POTUS that have smoked dope, people get elected to POTUS that have had DUI's, so I think your little UA drinking ticket is not a problem at all for you getting hired somewhere.

Infantry,
We are going to just agree to disagree on your authoritarian versus my Independent belief ideologies. But for this one point you are simply wrong.

I spent 8+ years working in the Burglar/Fire Alarm Industry, aside from bi-annual background checks, and driving record checks i was also subject to a morality clause.

Quite simply, though seldom enforced, any employee out there installing burglar alarms who has something as small as a traffic citation can be barred from working in that industry if the board so chooses.

I was an active member in the NCBFAA (Nc burglar and fire Alarm Association) and my then employer asked me to run for a board position (and offered me 20k/year if I agreed) well guess what. I was turned down solely because of a drunk in public charge as defined earlier in this thread.

Now it would be easy to say if I knew I wanted that role I shouldnt have gotten the ticket. But at the time I had no idea I would ever NEED to work in that industry. But in life sometimes you do what you have to do to support your family, for me that lead me into an entire career path I never envisioned.

So, for you to say it wont or cant impact his future is simply wrong. The fact is, like it or not, you have chosen to stay in the military and been successful at it because on some level you enjoy the structure and direction that comes from others telling you what/how/when to do. That doesnt make you bad. Nor does it make the 5 immediate family members of mine who were career military guys bad, nor does is make the OP a bad guy (though some of his responses may indicate some character issues of their own). It simply makes you different folks with different personalities. And that should be ok.