The future of cars

With the liberal agenda, I'm guess ar15...?
 
The only way a full-electric setup makes any sense is if it's charged directly from solar or hydro power. Otherwise, the car's really just running off coal (which loses ~70% of its energy as heat out the smokestacks at the plant, some other percentage as it's turned into steam/mechanical energy, and an average of f-ing 85% loss in resistance/heat as it travels through the copper lines to our houses. That's a tiny fraction of the energy that's in the coal, would be better if the car just ran off straight coal from a resources-use perspective.

Best estimates I've heard for our regular gas ICE's are 30% efficiency, with 70% of the energy lost as heat out the tailpipe. There are probably ways to convert that heat energy back into mechanical energy, I haven't really thought about it.

Bottom line for me is, the energy in gasoline is in the form of carbon chains, which were built by photosynthesis (read: solar power) a hell of a long time ago. Best photosynthetic efficiency in the most advanced grasses (bamboo) is ~13-15%. So we're using, at best, 30% of that 15%, not accounting for the energy that goes into fuel refining and transportation. Our modern solar panels have broached 30% efficiency.

If I had a billion dollars I'd pay people to work on this idea: make a photo-driven chemical reaction that synthesizes carbon from CO2 in the atmosphere into the end-product chains (methane octane etc - gasoline baby), basically an artificial photosynthesis that's many times more efficient. It'd allow us to essentially regulate the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and produce a never-ending supply of fuel at the same time. Carbon doesn't drift off into space, ya know? Just keep running our same engines and making parts to fix them...

Whatever, I run a donut shop, what the f do I know :laughing:
 
Bebop said:
Nuclear powerplants, no ?
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That too, also wind and tide turbines. Number of ways to skin a cat. Guess if you really wanted to you could put a little reactor in every Tesla.. :stirthepot: dunno if that'd work for the "zero landfill" thing though. I think it's fully possible to manufacture fuels for our existing engines without drilling the bottom of the ocean/arctic/war in the middle east, risking Fukushimas and Chernobyls etc, and without trying to run them off whiskey (ethanol).
 
unbrokenchain said:
That too, also wind and tide turbines. Number of ways to skin a cat. Guess if you really wanted to you could put a little reactor in every Tesla.. :stirthepot: dunno if that'd work for the "zero landfill" thing though. I think it's fully possible to manufacture fuels for our existing engines without drilling the bottom of the ocean/arctic/war in the middle east, risking Fukushimas and Chernobyls etc, and without trying to run them off whiskey (ethanol).
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Worked in this documentary I watched called Terminator
 
Bebop said:
Nuclear powerplants, no ?
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Yup.
If I had an electric car at my house it'd be powered by a combo of nuclear and the hydro plant at the dam 10 miles up the road.
 
benXJ said:
Gas/diesel engines will be around for quite a while. Heavy duty and medium duty trucks, boats off all types, remote US needs, even more remote rest of the world, construction, and all the lobbying power of the car modifying hobby.
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this.
All the talk is about consumer automobiles but thats only a small part of the ICE market and a tiny fraction of the actual polluters.
Boats in particular are a huge one. Its mind boggling when you first look at the number of vessels that are out in the water, even just the oceans... and then look up the fuel carriage for them.
 
RatLabGuy said:
this.
All the talk is about consumer automobiles but thats only a small part of the ICE market and a tiny fraction of the actual polluters.
Boats in particular are a huge one. Its mind boggling when you first look at the number of vessels that are out in the water, even just the oceans... and then look up the fuel carriage for them.
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Did they ever make all these cargo ships switch over to a lower sulfur fuel? I had heard by 2020 they were going to make them.
 
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Geez these are fast. One is much more expensive and is quicker but both are incredible. Guy in the Tesla trees the other guy the first race 😎

 
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Two things have to happen before I will buy an electric car or truck:
1) The electric car or truck needs to have equal to or greater range on a single charge than the equivalent ICE vehicle (For a truck, this includes range at full tow weight rating)
2) The electric car or truck needs to be able to be recharged in the same amount of time as refueling an ICE vehicle

Neither of those are going to happen any time soon.
 
unbrokenchain said:
The only way a full-electric setup makes any sense is if it's charged directly from solar or hydro power. Otherwise, the car's really just running off coal (which loses ~70% of its energy as heat out the smokestacks at the plant, some other percentage as it's turned into steam/mechanical energy, and an average of f-ing 85% loss in resistance/heat as it travels through the copper lines to our houses. That's a tiny fraction of the energy that's in the coal, would be better if the car just ran off straight coal from a resources-use perspective.
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If I had an electric car or truck, it would be charged from the coal burning power plant 10 miles up the road.

I saw a Tesla at the Tractor Supply 5 miles from my house with a Zero Emissions plate on the front. Uh, no.
 
drkelly said:
Two things have to happen before I will buy an electric car or truck:
1) The electric car or truck needs to have equal to or greater range on a single charge than the equivalent ICE vehicle (For a truck, this includes range at full tow weight rating)
2) The electric car or truck needs to be able to be recharged in the same amount of time as refueling an ICE vehicle

Neither of those are going to happen any time soon.
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You'll do what your elected officials mandate you do, if you want a new vehicle. 'You' voted these idiots in.

Ever increasing MPG requirements, screens and cams everywhere, mileage taxes, buyback programs and incentives (using your tax money), ever increasing fuel tax, the pressure being put on gasoline companies means you'll take what they offer.
 
benXJ said:
You'll do what your elected officials mandate you do, if you want a new vehicle. 'You' voted these idiots in.

Ever increasing MPG requirements, screens and cams everywhere, mileage taxes, buyback programs and incentives (using your tax money), ever increasing fuel tax, the pressure being put on gasoline companies means you'll take what they offer.
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Nah, I don't buy new vehicles. I've never owned one. I guess will be one of the few keeping ICE vehicles on the road until electric technology catches up if it comes to that.
 
benXJ said:
I'm more worried about fuel availability/cost than anything with keeping gas engines on the road
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It is going to be weird to see gas stations slowly disappear. I don't think gas availability will be a problem for a LONG time. I don't see cost becoming a problem either.

Diesel will still be available everywhere for MANY years. Long haul diesel trucks won't stop being produced until around 2050. Figure diesel fuel will still need to be readily available everywhere for 10 years after that, then slowly diesel stations will start dwindling beginning around 2060. I will be dead by then.
 
drkelly said:
It is going to be weird to see gas stations slowly disappear. I don't think gas availability will be a problem for a LONG time. I don't see cost becoming a problem either.

Diesel will still be available everywhere for MANY years. Long haul diesel trucks won't stop being produced until around 2050. Figure diesel fuel will still need to be readily available everywhere for 10 years after that, then slowly diesel stations will start dwindling beginning around 2060. I will be dead by then.
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I was excited to see JCB taking the lead on the Hydrogen front. I see that as an acceptable move away from Diesel in the big truck/equipment scene.
 
drkelly said:
It is going to be weird to see gas stations slowly disappear. I don't think gas availability will be a problem for a LONG time. I don't see cost becoming a problem either.

Diesel will still be available everywhere for MANY years. Long haul diesel trucks won't stop being produced until around 2050. Figure diesel fuel will still need to be readily available everywhere for 10 years after that, then slowly diesel stations will start dwindling beginning around 2060. I will be dead by then.
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Lets also not forget about the shipping world. There are how many thousands and thousands of boats out there right now running on ICEs that have no viable alternative in the near future. Nobody talks about that. If you think converting long-haul trucks is a challenge, think about a boat that takes 3 weeks to traverse a space where there is literally nowhere to stop.

Maybe's we'll end up with massive international floating nuclear reactor stops in the middle of the ocean
 
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