The future of cars

UTfball68 said:
Looks like e-crate motor swaps will be a thing…and I’m not disappointed…


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Not anytime soon. That's a mach E with a old truck poorly grafted on. Ford isn't selling crate batteries yet...so no fuel for those motors. Will require a full gut and rewire. Will require extensive frame and trans/tcase mods. Will requre body a d sheet metal mods. Far more complex and expensive than any LS swap.
 
benXJ said:
Not anytime soon. That's a mach E with a old truck poorly grafted on. Ford isn't selling crate batteries yet...so no fuel for those motors. Will require a full gut and rewire. Will require extensive frame and trans/tcase mods. Will requre body a d sheet metal mods. Far more complex and expensive than any LS swap.
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Bruh with the shit swaps that happen on a daily basis as is, anyone with $3900 and thinks they're an electrician, will make it work. Homemade tesla swaps have been happening for a while now with limited aftermarket swap support...I have no doubt hack job swaps will be popping up over the next 24 months.

Hell...it's already sold out/back ordered on Ford Performance...I doubt folks bought them with the intent of them being paper weights.
 
UTfball68 said:
Hell...it's already sold out/back ordered on Ford Performance...I doubt folks bought them with any idea of how to make them actually work.
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FIFY
 
jeepinmatt said:
FIFY
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I dunno man...I'm not thinking folks buying electric crate motors are the average bruncledaddy gear head. Especially coming from a business where a considerable number of folks want your $4500 base engine build at Jasper prices on a $50/wk payment plan, and even the thought of efi scares them. Maybe I'm giving more credit to humanity than deserved, but I'm thinking if you have the interest in electric motors and $3900 to drop on one, you're probably smarter than the average bear. I'm thinking the guys that did Tesla swaps in Fords are the ones trying to go back all blue oval, or shops getting ready to showcase their craftsmanship and skill. Coyote swaps had to come from somewhere, Godzilla swaps are coming from somewhere, Eluminator swaps are going to come from somewhere. That's the beauty of capitalism.
 
benXJ said:
Ford isn't selling crate batteries yet...so no fuel for those motors.
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Or a motor controller, which is where the real magic sauce is
 
UTfball68 said:
So are you saying all these things are proprietary and can't be re-coded or re-wired?
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"cant"...anything is possible.
How good a hacker are ya?
 
UTfball68 said:
So are you saying all these things are proprietary and can't be re-coded or re-wired?
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Didn't say that at all.

I'm just saying that a motor and a battery are only part of the equation. You have to have something that in the simplest sense connects the gas pedal to the motor to make it go, and it the more realistic sense has smarts to know exactly how much to go, when. You could DIY, or buy an aftermarket controller, but then you'd still have to tune it for that motor. I'd think that the real turnkey would be a controller from Ford that is ready to go.

I expect that in 5 years or less there will be a whole business sub economy on automotive motor controllers.
 
I'm sure there will be some crazy swap kits on the market in the future.
 
Bebop said:
Gonna be reaaaaaaally hard depending on what module you're talking about. Our own engineers are sometimes limited themselves...

But as mentioned above, anything is possible with enough talent and money.
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I'm betting that eventually an open-source / courdsourced module becomes a thing. It has happened in almost all other major industries. With as many DIY car guys as there are out there, this is going become just new replacement for tweaking a carb etc.
 
RatLabGuy said:
I'm betting that eventually an open-source / courdsourced module becomes a thing. It has happened in almost all other major industries. With as many DIY car guys as there are out there, this is going become just new replacement for tweaking a carb etc.
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For a swap, 100% agree.
Yank the engine out, put it into something else, new brain box, GTG. Kinda like an LS swap with a Holley ECU.

To modify the ECM inside an electric car for more performance, HPTuner style, it's gonna be hard.
 
Bebop said:
For a swap, 100% agree.
Yank the engine out, put it into something else, new brain box, GTG. Kinda like an LS swap with a Holley ECU.

To modify the ECM inside an electric car for more performance, HPTuner style, it's gonna be hard.
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yes, bc the OEMs would have to allow a means for modification, which becomes a huge potential liability problem. I can totally see why they'd want the controllers locked down. If I were leading a for-profit company, I'd lock them too.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Didn't say that at all.

I'm just saying that a motor and a battery are only part of the equation. You have to have something that in the simplest sense connects the gas pedal to the motor to make it go, and it the more realistic sense has smarts to know exactly how much to go, when. You could DIY, or buy an aftermarket controller, but then you'd still have to tune it for that motor. I'd think that the real turnkey would be a controller from Ford that is ready to go.

I expect that in 5 years or less there will be a whole business sub economy on automotive motor controllers.
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Yeah, I think even the bruncledaddies have figured out that more than a motor is what it's gonna take to get anything moving. And as I noted in a previous comment, I'm also assuming this is appealing to a higher class/more intelligent builder. 5 years, IMO isn't that long to 'crack the code'...and frankly, I already know of a couple high end builders in groups with the intent to do the swap for the next big 6 figure auction build and ultimately, sell the swap parts...over the next couple of years. And that's just the 73-79 ford truck market, which is a bruncledaddy cesspool...imagine if some SVT/Shelby guys decide to make a few bucks.
 
Not the prettiest looking thing.

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Why can’t you just trade your battery at a station, I mean when your power drill dies you just grab the other battery off the charger. Seems like a standardized battery that you rent with the state of charge determining the cost of rental would be the way to go
 
Shreddinlettuce said:
Why can’t you just trade your battery at a station, I mean when your power drill dies you just grab the other battery off the charger. Seems like a standardized battery that you rent with the state of charge determining the cost of rental would be the way to go
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This is a good idea, and there are companies looking into it - the problem is design and logistics. You'd have to have batteries that are easily disconnected and removed from the car, e.g. fast swappable. If it took longer than a few minutes then it wouldn't be worth it. That puts a major limitation on how the car is designed. Batteries are really big and heavy. The logical thing to do is to have them on the underside of the car. but that makes them hard to get to without a lift and such.
 
RatLabGuy said:
This is a good idea, and there are companies looking into it - the problem is design and logistics. You'd have to have batteries that are easily disconnected and removed from the car, e.g. fast swappable. If it took longer than a few minutes then it wouldn't be worth it. That puts a major limitation on how the car is designed. Batteries are really big and heavy. The logical thing to do is to have them on the underside of the car. but that makes them hard to get to without a lift and such.
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Create a harness for particular models, that connect to the controller, or "charge port" on the inside of the car.
Make a battery that is the size of a typical "roller" bag suitcase.
Plug & Play.

That sounds good in the theory, but not really sure if that battery size will provide useful mileage.
 
RatLabGuy said:
This is a good idea, and there are companies looking into it - the problem is design and logistics. You'd have to have batteries that are easily disconnected and removed from the car, e.g. fast swappable. If it took longer than a few minutes then it wouldn't be worth it. That puts a major limitation on how the car is designed. Batteries are really big and heavy. The logical thing to do is to have them on the underside of the car. but that makes them hard to get to without a lift and such.
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Ive had an idea here for a while.
Anyone who is familiar with draw out switchgear, think rackable batteries, on a dolly/tray. Universal design. Use exsiting gas staion infastructur with old school service techs to swap batteries.. pull up pay for a recharge and away you go. Buy pepsi and coke inside while you are filled up
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
Create a harness for particular models, that connect to the controller, or "charge port" on the inside of the car.
Make a battery that is the size of a typical "roller" bag suitcase.
Plug & Play.

That sounds good in the theory, but not really sure if that battery size will provide useful mileage.
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Ron said:
Ive had an idea here for a while.
Anyone who is familiar with draw out switchgear, think rackable batteries, on a dolly/tray. Universal design. Use exsiting gas staion infastructur with old school service techs to swap batteries.. pull up pay for a recharge and away you go. Buy pepsi and coke inside while you are filled up
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Sure... but you gotta convince the OEMs to design the cars in such a way that the batteries can be so easily accessed and swapped out. This requires them to make major concessions in weight distribution, safety, security of the batteries, size of the batteries, etc that I'm sure they do not want to give up.
Its the age-old problem of the community-level benefit from convenience of standardized parts vs the technical advantages of desigining your own thing so it fits your application really really well. A la phone batteries, USB connection format fights, etc.

And as long as a recharge that is enough to get me another good distance could theoretically take 30 mins or even less, that sets a max amount of time of how long your old-school service tech has to get teh customer literally in and out the door. Otherwise, why bother?
 
RatLabGuy said:
Sure... but you gotta convince the OEMs to design the cars in such a way that the batteries can be so easily accessed and swapped out. This requires them to make major concessions in weight distribution, safety, security of the batteries, size of the batteries, etc that I'm sure they do not want to give up.
Its the age-old problem of the community-level benefit from convenience of standardized parts vs the technical advantages of desigining your own thing so it fits your application really really well. A la phone batteries, USB connection format fights, etc.

And as long as a recharge that is enough to get me another good distance could theoretically take 30 mins or even less, that sets a max amount of time of how long your old-school service tech has to get teh customer literally in and out the door. Otherwise, why bother?
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gas stations break even on gas and make 40% on c-store goods
 
The batteries weigh around 1,000 lbs.
 
Shreddinlettuce said:
Why can’t you just trade your battery at a station, I mean when your power drill dies you just grab the other battery off the charger. Seems like a standardized battery that you rent with the state of charge determining the cost of rental would be the way to go
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Tesla was claiming to do that.

www.tesla.com

Battery Swap Pilot Program | Tesla

www.tesla.com www.tesla.com

But the idea died. I haven’t heard much since then
 
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