Uwharrie 4x4Cross Questions & Answers - Old Thread

[Dylan W.]

OK I see you have never done anything big like this before.
You will have a permit from the Park Like he said he has plus
http://www.wakegov.com/businesses/startingabusiness/stateinformation.htm
http://www.wakegov.com/businesses/startingabusiness/municipal.htm
and maybe permits from the county for a group of people over 50 people. If food is going to be sold he will need to have permits from the health department and gradeing for all the places doing the food and they should have a food service license and permits to do so for a large group of people.
That is just a few.
And if he did not see a need to get the LLC I would bet he did not see a need to get his business licenses or business permit or hell I bet a Federal Tax ID or the State Tax ID number ....... and you need a sales tax number.....
http://www.gov-tax.com/

You seem to be very educated in how this should be ran, and what needs to be done, and what could happen. How about helping explain to people, the need to stay off the trail, or where to ''go pee'' or why they should'nt sue a trained vol. fireman.Also I am sure the food workers will have permits.They might even already know to wash their hands. We will establish a hand washing protocol if we need to.
I hate to sound like a smartass, but dang guys, if it bothers you this much, Please dont attend at all. Sometimes I wonder who's side a few folks are on. I know I will get bashed for these comments by some of you. But I swear the way somefolks are, sounds like you want the ''roadless laws'' more than the greenies. ''Hey guys, dont do that, the greenies wont like it'' Ok lets just sale our 4x4's before they spot us and burn our homes . I know Im getting a bit crazy here, but it feels good to say some of this stuff.
I will put on my Nomex now.

 

[JohnC]

As far as getting paid we're all doing it for our own reasons, but mainly because we want to see our sport succeed and are willing to help out to get it there.

I think this is exactly why you are getting so many questions, really. Everyone wants this to be a success, I think, for the same reasons you stated above. A well run event will help support our hobby and help keep access to trails, etc... A poorly run event would do nothing but cause bad publicity for all of us and that can potentially threaten access. Sometimes people ask questions and it sounds as if they are coming down on you, but it is in their... and your... best interest to think all these "little" things through, so that people are safe, so that the trails are protected, so even that drunk redneck asshole four wheeler mentioned above, can look back and say, wow, that was great, so that especially the rangers and the media can be fully supportive of this or another event happening again. This is a pass/fail test... If the event passes, you achieve your stated goals.... if it fails, you have a negative impact on everyone involved with off roading at URE. People who are asking questions realize that and are just as interested in the future of our sport as American Wheeler.

I support the event and have offered my volunteer assistance, prior to and day of. I do that because I would rather be involved and help to make sure it is run in a way that reflects a good image of us and our sport.

John

 

[purpleTJchick]

Dylan, word of advice. Don't rely on others to think. Some will look for the easy way out just like everyone Else.Your food guy does not get the permit... he thinks you are.. where are you then? You will have to treat 50 guest like they are 50 kids, A person is smart, but People are dumb.

Yes these guys have to think about the Greene's, It is OK to push their buttons... All they want is one REAL good excuse/evidence to shut down the trail system. They have nothing to fear, what can we go after that have?? We have everything to fear... we have our trails!!!

 

[Ricky B]

Dylan, word of advice. Don't rely on others to think. Some will look for the easy way out just like everyone Else.Your food guy does not get the permit... he thinks you are.. where are you then? You will have to treat 50 guest like they are 50 kids, A person is smart, but People are dumb.
Yes these guys have to think about the Greene's, It is OK to push their buttons... All they want is one REAL good excuse/evidence to shut down the trail system. They have nothing to fear, what can we go after that have?? We have everything to fear... we have our trails!!!

We've repeated over and over again we're doing everything we can to minimize enviromental impact, I don't know what else to tell you.

The Permit thing is Seans problem to deal with, not ours.

 

[Dylan W.]

I am the Vol. coordinator. I still need to find out a few more ''lay of the land details''.
I will establish a plan for everything I can think of, that might happen on race day.
Sure there will be something missed...maybe too much emphasis place in the wrong place, or something might turn out perfect. Who knows yet?

Once I gain better insight to the actual trail and surroundings, I will have a better overall plan for the ''helper bees''. I will also be using folks I trust, to act as micro-managers and help me out. Alot of responsibilities will be delegated to responsible folks.

I am fully aware of all the impending dangers of the event,the posibility of failure, and the fact that I have just pissed a few folks off. I am sorry for that, but if you guys think this is a scam or something....start your own thread stating that. I know you guys are genuinly concerned and so am I . Lets just see what happens this year, and go from there. Also, it sounds like a few of you may be ready to ''pounce'' if you found out that some folks may be getting paid for this. That would be great would'nt it? Getting paid for doing something you love to do!! Truth is , we are not, but might in the future, if American Wheeler takes off as one of the best Offroad Festival Promoters in the land!!

 

[purpleTJchick]

We've repeated over and over again we're doing everything we can to minimize enviromental impact, I don't know what else to tell you.
The Permit thing is Seans problem to deal with, not ours.

But I swear the way somefolks are, sounds like you want the ''roadless laws'' more than the greenies. ''Hey guys, dont do that, the greenies wont like it'' Ok lets just sale our 4x4's before they spot us and burn our homes . I know Im getting a bit crazy here, but it feels good to say some of this stuff.
I will put on my Nomex now.

I was responding to that..

As far as the permit goes... Stop saying "we" if it is really just him, everything I wrote was response to the dylan post above.

 

[Ricky B]

I was responding to that..
As far as the permit goes... Stop saying "we" if it is really just him, everything I wrote was response to the dylan post above.

w/e, you address an issue dealing with the uwharrie race your addressing me too.

I say we cause for the most part things do involve more than one person

 

[Ron]

Honestly I have been vocal about my concern for this to even be pulled off.
My concern is 3 fold.
First a black eye for the community as a whole. If something isnt thought of, if some base isnt covered, what then. Where COULD it leave our sport. We have a few fairly high profile high net worth individuals here. What if someone times it just right and gets on the trail in front of one of these and sues them. Sorry your insurance company aint gonna cover I ran over some dude and paralyzed him in a race. I talked to my business insurance agent earlier, for a 1 day umbrella 1 million dollar policy to participate in this, he wanted $1700....


Second my concern is for UNF, what IF someone gets hurt? What IF someone dies? What IF someone shits in the woods and it stirs up a stink? Ricky very wrongly used the word negligence earlier. Criminal negligence can occur if the organizer, sponsor OR ANY PROMOTER does not consider and take necessary precautions. Ricky, Dylan, I like ya both. But each of you has staked your entire reputation on this board on this event, any failures will be seen as failure BY YOU TWO. And any successes, I WILL BE THE FIRST TO POST GREAT JOB AND CONGRATS AND I AM WRONG.

Third and finally I am concerned for NC4x4.com. This has grown into a model community and there has been much promoting here. new membership registrations are at an all time high. If a new member reads about this here and gets suckered, scammed, or otherwise defrauded of his money it make Rob, you, me and every other member of this board look bad.

I have to say, I quite often disagree with John (Mr. Gadget) but I would have less concern if he posted that he was handling this event. Because he has proven himself to be detail oriented and has at least shown a knowledge of the requirements. Ricky, i like ya a lot, but BECAUSE you are 22 you do not have the life experience to be a major contributor (other than energy, enthusiasm, and elbow grease) and that comes from a guy who founded a company at 21 that was worth 1.5mil at 23. And then went bankrupt at 24.

Several people are making flip of the cuff comments about serious issues. Anyone looked into the fines for not providing adequate restroom facilities? Anyone know the math involved? If so, who has conducted the market research study to determine estimated crowd numbers? And before Dyaln responds, well we dont know we just shouldn't do anything. I would agree. if you cant do this RIGHT dont do it at all. If it is a success it could be a recurring long term GREAT ASSET to our sport. If it iss done wrong it could do ireperable harm.

Sorry I am big on truth.Once I am lied to (I have an LLC, I have a NPO, oops wait they are coming) I dont believe anything you say.

Someone (Bigwoody?) mentioned the Gulches competition, there is one huge difference. It is on private land. Not a national forest. And strangely enough when some of theese same questions are thrown at those guys, they have answers that are uniform and consistent

 

[upnover]

Dylan out of my whole post you addressed the walking part. My point is simple, it's a great idea, but I do not think the national forest is the place for it. I think it opens too many doors to accidents, Greene's, and so on. I think safety is gonna be a big issue to deal with. Spectators, and racers. I mean I trust some peoples builds as far a a cage. Some go out of their way to prove it will work. Then there are ones that look really unsafe. OK and if you get the numbers you need to run this like you all want it to happen, there are gonna be butt loads of people there, then, the worst happens, someone gets hurt, be it racer or someone watching, how are you gonna get them out in a timely manner? Someone gets hurt, who is responsible? Are you or any others that are working on this ready to loose everything you have because of a lawsuit? And how do you deal with knowing that you have been questioned, for warned if you will, about the safety aspects, go ahead with it as planned, someone gets hurt, and you have the picture in your head for many years to come that you were in part responsible for it happening. Picture this, someones 3 year old, darts out in front of a racer................
My kids are grown, you have a wee one, you know as well as I do how unpredictable they can be. Even though my youngest is 19, I still remember my heart jumping when they did something that scarred my heart into missing beats.
think about it

 

[Ricky B]

Holy crap this has gotten ridiculous . . . . . the munber of frikin what if's that you all can come up with is uncountable, I don't know what you expect us to do cause there's always gonna be another what if

This sport has got to start somewhere, we're gonna do everything we can to make it run right and well, at this point there's not much else I can add without just continuing to have you all coming up with new arguments.

 

[Dylan W.]

I agree with you 100% Alot is being learned from these posts. I do hate sounding like a jerk. I am aware that my online rep could be destroyed. This is why I am trying to get answers for most questions. I cant tell you why the LLC has not been filed yet. I can say the NPO, as of now, is just starting up.Money has not been accepted yet. Technicaly, it only exist on a web-page as what is to become. IF this thing is a bust...I will happily go away and get back to basics.Just wheeling with friends and family.Sometimes I wonder why I am involved in this, instead of just watching and waiting. Yes, ''we'' are on a limb here and we realize there will be vultures if we fail. I just hope we dont. Would some of you guys be willing to offer help to go along with the great advice? I have vols. lined up, but as stated before..I will need team leaders from trash to Emt.

Chip...Sorry for picking on the walking part of your post. Also...I hope I would be a good enough father to make Damn sure Maycee did'nt get ran over. And I expect all parents to be the same way. If not...I think the parent is to blame, not the promotor or the racers.

 

[upnover]

YEah Rick there are a lot of what if's. I did stir the pot I guess, but it is something that I have been thinking about. You have to think about the what if's in order to plan for what ever. I won't be there, but I will have many friends that will be.

 

[Ricky B]

YEah Rick there are a lot of what if's. I did stir the pot I guess, but it is something that I have been thinking about. You have to think about the what if's in order to plan for what ever. I won't be there, but I will have many friends that will be.

Yea I understand and I hate to come back at you like that I respect you more than anyone here on this board probably, it was more directed towards everyone in general.

I just don't know if my/our arguing back is going to be helpful at this point, because its going nowhere. We're gonna do everything we can to make this race run smoothly and safely is all I can really say.

 

[BlueRidgeRunner]

I believe that you fail to realize what is at stake here. If things go wrong and people or the "environment" gets hurt than there will be long term damage to the sport. Having this on private property would be a lot better decision.

I am still amazed that the FS has permitted a "for profit" competition to be allowed on the property. I have asked to have a "for profit" event there in 2001 and was denied.

Also keep in mind that The SELC is probably watching.

 

[Ricky B]

I believe that you fail to realize what is at stake here. If things go wrong and people or the "environment" gets hurt than there will be long term damage to the sport. Having this on private property would be a lot better decision.
I am still amazed that the FS has permitted a "for profit" competition to be allowed on the property. I have asked to have a "for profit" event there in 2001 and was denied.
Also keep in mind that The SELC is probably watching.

I realize what is at stake, but I'm not going to let it keep me from trying to get the sport going.

We're gonna do everything we can to make this race run smoothly and safely.

Any environmental issues should be directed to the Ranger service.

 

[Dylan W.]

I believe that you fail to realize what is at stake here. If things go wrong and people or the "environment" gets hurt than there will be long term damage to the sport. Having this on private property would be a lot better decision.
I am still amazed that the FS has permitted a "for profit" competition to be allowed on the property. I have asked to have a "for profit" event there in 2001 and was denied.
Also keep in mind that The SELC is probably watching.

New management, maybe?

 

[BlueRidgeRunner]

New management, maybe?

Thats probably the reason I was denied.

 

[Dylan W.]

yeah guys, we are just the mesengers here. We believe in this event. We are taking these and other questions to Sean, who has a silent partner as well. Alot of what we say is based on faith and trust of a mans word and vision. This is a great task for all involved.And I now realize that Ricky or myself becoming sarcastic with our friends on here, does not help this event, or more importantly, our relationships with our friends.
Our intent is to help promote this event in a positive way., on this forum and in general.
Truth is...if this event flops, i will be too embarrassed to prolly ever post on here again, so my rep. on here would be a moot point. But my friendships that I have built on here and the trails, should stand the test of time.

So to Chip,Skyhigh,Gadget, and purpletjchic, I am sorry if I have offended anyone personaly.

 

[Ricky B]

yeah guys, we are just the mesengers here. We believe in this event. We are taking these and other questions to Sean, who has a silent partner as well. Alot of what we say is based on faith and trust of a mans word and vision. This is a great task for all involved.And I now realize that Ricky or myself becoming sarcastic with our friends on here, does not help this event, or more importantly, our relationships with our friends.
Our intent is to help promote this event in a positive way., on this forum and in general.
Truth is...if this event flops, i will be too embarrassed to prolly ever post on here again, so my rep. on here would be a moot point. But my friendships that I have built on here and the trails, should stand the test of time.
So to Chip,Skyhigh,Gadget, and purpletjchic, I am sorry if I have offended anyone personaly.

X2 I hate making enemies, so much more can be accomplished throu positive relationships

We're just trying to what we can to make it happen


but im def not gonna dissapear if it goes bad, just dust off and keep plowin on

 

[uncc civilengineer]

man... i'm burned out from reading all that... Out of curosity, what did Pirate do for the KOH's Race? not sure but isnt that BLM land?

 

[Dylan W.]

The land issue rest only with those who are worried. The permits exist and it has been approved by the Forest Rangers.
I think the race was ,at least partially on BLM land, but not for sure. That would be a good example of what we have here.

 

[raleighjeepguy]

What IF someone shits in the woods and it stirs up a stink?

I was so bringing my shovel if I had to drop a deuce. I think a great suggestion to the naysayers is volunteer. I personally think this could be a disaster but I would like to volunteer. I've participated in planning alot of corporate events. If you think their are going to be problems then step up and help is my thinking. I don't want a black eye for this community either but I think its a better reason to help. No I wouldn't work if I wasn't insured..........so thats a given for most. I think that brings up the issue of insurance and what paperwork is involved in being covered as an employee b/c tech you have to pay those people. I might have missed something along these lines in the past few pages and if so I apologize but 20 pages of crap is hard to read without me going insane

 

[Mac5005]

jeez this is getting ridiculous,

To dylan and ricky I appreciate everything you are doing. and thanks ricky for answering my question about the spectators,

To everyone "hating" this event, and trying pick every little detail apart... if you are going to race that day, then just worry about how you are going to do in the race, and if your rig is going to make it to the finish. If you are not racing that day, then dont worry about it, its none of your damn business. I you are not racing, but helping out, thanks for the help. Thats just my $.02 .

Basically, if you arent paying the fee, and you arent going to race, then dont worry about it. If you are going to race, then worry about racing instead of the "fine print" details that will all be worked out between now and then.

 

[Dylan W.]

but im def not gonna dissapear if it goes bad, just dust off and keep plowin on

I have yet to learn how to seperate my real feelings with my e-feelings. I could'nt take the heat!lol
I would still be the ''Best darn wheeler period'' I just could'nt e-wheel anymore.
Besides, when this goes off great, Me and Ricky will have our own fan clubs!(amongst other greats)

 

[upnover]

Dylan our friendship hasn't been tarnished at all, at least from my stand point. I am not addressing you, or Rick, but rather the event it's self. I am a lot more cautious than I was in my younger days. I guess a lot of that comes from my roll as a father and questioning their decisions and choices. Before I commit to things I have to run it thru my head and ask myself many questions. I have to play out scenario's.
And for the record, I'd still weld you up when you break out on the trails!