World Population

what about increased efficiency?

shifting ideas to invest/save/plan other ways instead of the constant drive to make everything 'worth more'

and who cares anyway? we won't be around in 100 years
 
investing in tangible goods like gold land real estate, not the stock market betters the future. Stock market money is money that is taken off the top and not reinvested into making a better product or paying employee salaries. If all the dividends paid out to investors went back to the employees a middle class family would be able to afford a single income again
 
The US is now under 1.6.
 
Shreddinlettuce said:
investing in tangible goods like gold land real estate, not the stock market betters the future. Stock market money is money that is taken off the top and not reinvested into making a better product or paying employee salaries. If all the dividends paid out to investors went back to the employees a middle class family would be able to afford a single income again
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If you paid out all the dividends in the US stock market every year to only working families (regardless of whether or not they owned shares), it would be about $5-6k per year per family, definitely no more than $10k. That's before taxes.
 
shawn said:
If you paid out all the dividends in the US stock market every year to only working families (regardless of whether or not they owned shares), it would be about $5-6k per year per family, definitely no more than $10k. That's before taxes.
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But when an investor takes 15% of profits off the top while the company is not paying a living wage is what I’m referring to.

Back in the day being a plumber meant you went and plumbed. Now you either own the company, or you are paid by the hour for most plumbers there is no upward mobility in the company.

The roto rooter paradigm is that now people can just hide in a big company and not put their name on anything/ take pride in work. But they don’t get paid that great, and middle management/ dividends/ owner operators take home great money for things that aren’t value added services.
 
but there are lots of plumbing companies (HVAC, electricians, construction, etc) with lots of owners/upper management making good money, paying lots of taxes.

with a new plumber breaking out on his own every day.....or the standout employee can take over the biz once the current owner retires

the past was the same, just a smaller scale (and no social media for everyone to bitch on about not having the newest thing)

what is this living wage? are there many stories of people that work hard 40 hours a week and aren't 'living' and are dying in the street?
seems like they are living
and aren't voters getting what they vote for? (or don't get involved due to apathy and then suffer?)
 
i wonder if the projects for population are wrong now. population estimated to peak in 2080s but population growth is now under 1% world wide and dropping. Indias population is still growing, while most of the rest of the world is peaked and dropping. China, Russia are both loosing population quickly at a steady rate. most of the third world countries are already dealing with food shortages, and india is starting to have issues as well. I wonder what would happen if all foreign aid was to stop to these third world countries. 7 out of the 20 highest populations in the world ARENT third world countries.
 
Shreddinlettuce said:
But when an investor takes 15% of profits off the top while the company is not paying a living wage is what I’m referring to.

Back in the day being a plumber meant you went and plumbed. Now you either own the company, or you are paid by the hour for most plumbers there is no upward mobility in the company.

The roto rooter paradigm is that now people can just hide in a big company and not put their name on anything/ take pride in work. But they don’t get paid that great, and middle management/ dividends/ owner operators take home great money for things that aren’t value added services.
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That’s simply not true.
I can point to so many companies in the trades where “middle management” as you call it (project managers, estimators, etc) started as hourly helpers.

I can also show you a ton of guys who can’t consistently get to work. Make horrible life choices, never give one ounce more than absolutely necessary and then whine about being held down by the man.

And if you think an owner /operator of an MEP firm isn’t adding value- your opinion is so ignorant (and I don’t use that as derisive language rather in the text book definition of ignorant - lacking information knowledge or perspective) it isn’t even worth conversing with.
 
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Ron said:
I can point to so many companies in the trades where “middle management” as you call it (project managers, estimators, etc) started as hourly helpers.
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I’m not saying all companies are like that, but a lot of the national corporations are. There are also good people in terrible companies as evidenced by a recent thread shitty situation at work.

Ron said:
I can also show you a ton of guys who can’t consistently get to work. Make horrible life choices, never give one ounce more than absolutely necessary and then whine about being held down by the man.
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These definitely exist, but there are others who work hard and can’t get ahead despite good choices.

Ron said:
And if you think an owner /operator of an MEP firm isn’t adding value- your opinion is so ignorant (and I don’t use that as derisive language rather in the text book definition of ignorant - lacking information knowledge or perspective) it isn’t even worth conversing with.
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I have known several people that bought into a franchise with daddy’s money and ran it dry while taking home hefty checks. There are also many instances of embezzlement that often lead to jail time etc.

Companies with upward mobility that hire from within have my highest respect. There is also a lot of talent that is not realized because some people don’t know how to market themselves.

I had to replace a water heater in my last house before closing, and the quickest I could get it done was with Mr rooter, house had full copper service, so a they just put some shark bites in and moved on to the next one.

Funny thing is the previous owner had another group install the water heater, who did not balance the expansion tank leading to the failure. And despite replacing the heater, the guys from rooter installed a new expansion tank and never even checked system pressure. Pressure at the house was 100psi, the expansion tank out of the box was set around 40psi.

The consumer gets screwed thinking that are getting a fair deal, or just don’t have anyone to recommend a good service. And with no incentive as long as you don’t get a callback…
 
Shreddinlettuce said:
I’m not saying all companies are like that, but a lot of the national corporations are. There are also good people in terrible companies as evidenced by a recent thread shitty situation at work.


These definitely exist, but there are others who work hard and can’t get ahead despite good choices.


I have known several people that bought into a franchise with daddy’s money and ran it dry while taking home hefty checks. There are also many instances of embezzlement that often lead to jail time etc.

Companies with upward mobility that hire from within have my highest respect. There is also a lot of talent that is not realized because some people don’t know how to market themselves.

I had to replace a water heater in my last house before closing, and the quickest I could get it done was with Mr rooter, house had full copper service, so a they just put some shark bites in and moved on to the next one.

Funny thing is the previous owner had another group install the water heater, who did not balance the expansion tank leading to the failure. And despite replacing the heater, the guys from rooter installed a new expansion tank and never even checked system pressure. Pressure at the house was 100psi, the expansion tank out of the box was set around 40psi.

The consumer gets screwed thinking that are getting a fair deal, or just don’t have anyone to recommend a good service. And with no incentive as long as you don’t get a callback…
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Roto rooter, Mr Electric, Ben Franklin and all the other companies are national entities with huge overhead and marketing budgets. They will alays be the most expensive. But they are the biggest and the easiest to work with because of their size and process.

If a consumer takes the lazy way out and calls one of them - they pay for that convenience. Its shitty but true.

I personally would never hire a franchise tradesman. Complaining about roto rooter or the like is no different than complaining about the meat quality in a mcdonalds cheeseburger. They aren't designed to be the best but to be convenient.

I agree with you on people not knowing how to market themselves...but that is a personal accountability conversation. That is a skill and part of their package. How many of those folks spend hours at night reading or watching youtube and working on self impovement...versus how many go fish, hunt, play golf or four wheel....and then complain about the success of those who sacrifice those activities to self improve?
 
Ron said:
Roto rooter, Mr Electric, Ben Franklin and all the other companies are national entities with huge overhead and marketing budgets. They will alays be the most expensive. But they are the biggest and the easiest to work with because of their size and process.

If a consumer takes the lazy way out and calls one of them - they pay for that convenience. Its shitty but true.

I personally would never hire a franchise tradesman. Complaining about roto rooter or the like is no different than complaining about the meat quality in a mcdonalds cheeseburger. They aren't designed to be the best but to be convenient.

I agree with you on people not knowing how to market themselves...but that is a personal accountability conversation. That is a skill and part of their package. How many of those folks spend hours at night reading or watching youtube and working on self impovement...versus how many go fish, hunt, play golf or four wheel....and then complain about the success of those who sacrifice those activities to self improve?
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Don't forget most of those big chains also offer financing. They get a ton of work because most Americans dont have a savings and blow their money or toys or living above their means and then something happens ans they have to finance or put on credit card.
 
Loganwayne said:
Don't forget most of those big chains also offer financing. They get a ton of work because most Americans dont have a savings and blow their money or toys or living above their means and then something happens ans they have to finance or put on credit card.
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And they have stuff in stock and will replace your AC on July 4th at 9am so you have cool air for your cookout. And you can finance that $15k for 10 years. Even if you just needed a $50 capacitor.
 
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jeepinmatt said:
And they have stuff in stock and will replace your AC on July 4th at 9am so you have cool air for your cookout. And you can finance that $15k for 10 years. Even if you just needed a $50 capacitor.
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Thank goodness I have "a guy"

I hear stories of people who don't have people or aren't connected enough to know who to call for stuff like that. It's sad really. And I can't relate because my whole life has revolved around relationships and connections formed just in case....really anything. I think the only connection I DON'T have would be a lawyer on retainer in case I do something really stupid. I know a few realtor and land attorneys but no real "you done fugged up son" attorneys 🤔
 
Shreddinlettuce said:
investing in tangible goods like gold land real estate, not the stock market betters the future. Stock market money is money that is taken off the top and not reinvested into making a better product or paying employee salaries. If all the dividends paid out to investors went back to the employees a middle class family would be able to afford a single income again
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I think you might need to relook what the Stock Market is. Companies sell stocks to raise capital to do things like pay for expansions that need more workers, build facilities, expand research, etc.

People trade these stocks and receive dividends that are the profits from said improvements. The value of the stock is based on the assessment of how much profit (dividends) the share holder will receive.

$ in the stock market = $ working in the economy.
 
Shreddinlettuce said:
But when an investor takes 15% of profits off the top while the company is not paying a living wage is what I’m referring to.

Back in the day being a plumber meant you went and plumbed. Now you either own the company, or you are paid by the hour for most plumbers there is no upward mobility in the company.

The roto rooter paradigm is that now people can just hide in a big company and not put their name on anything/ take pride in work. But they don’t get paid that great, and middle management/ dividends/ owner operators take home great money for things that aren’t value added services.
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So, when considering the cost of labor here are some important principles:

Risk v. Reward: An owner is not guaranteed profit and has invested for capital to start and maintain the business. So, if they made a wise choice they make a lot of money.

Labor value: An employee receives money regardless of the value of their labor. You could sit in the truck all day and still be on the clock. The employee's wage is not determined by how much they produce. It is determined by how easy they are to replace.
 
Southern_Transplant said:
think you might need to relook what the Stock Market is. Companies sell stocks to raise capital to do things like pay for expansions that need more workers, build facilities, expand research, etc.
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You're supposed to piss with the wind.
 
Andy J. said:
Interesting that they focus on feminism as the main reason for the lack of babies. We all know it’s ‘cause no one can afford those little resources gobblers anymore!
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tell that to all the low income families pumping them out.

Id like to know the demographics of who is having kids and how many in America right now.

it seems like a lot of middle class people are having 1 or none. while people in the edge of poverty keep having kids.
 
Loganwayne said:
tell that to all the low income families pumping them out.

Id like to know the demographics of who is having kids and how many in America right now.

it seems like a lot of middle class people are having 1 or none. while people in the edge of poverty keep having kids.
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well they get all the help
 
Loganwayne said:
tell that to all the low income families pumping them out.

Id like to know the demographics of who is having kids and how many in America right now.

it seems like a lot of middle class people are having 1 or none. while people in the edge of poverty keep having kids.
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Idiocracy is coming true.
 
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