05 TJ LS swap

So...what transfer case are you using? You said 241, but those didn't come in anything with a 5.3. If you're talking about the stock case, it's a 261, 263, or a 246 (if it has AutoTrac). All three of which are a terrible choice to put in a Jeep. You're going to need something as short as possible, not to mention the front outputs are female and the driveshaft slides in to the case. They're not meant to move much. There's also the issue with pump rub on all of those magnesium cases.

A 241 with a SYE is what I would suggest.

You can also set the electric fans up to be controlled through the PCM. Lots of people make harnesses for them. Just have to add two pins in the PCM connector and enable it in the tuning.

Last thing...put the air filter somewhere that doesn't let it suck hot air off the side of the radiator or from under the hood.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
So...what transfer case are you using? You said 241, but those didn't come in anything with a 5.3. If you're talking about the stock case, it's a 261, 263, or a 246 (if it has AutoTrac). All three of which are a terrible choice to put in a Jeep. You're going to need something as short as possible, not to mention the front outputs are female and the driveshaft slides in to the case. They're not meant to move much. There's also the issue with pump rub on all of those magnesium cases.

A 241 with a SYE is what I would suggest.

You can also set the electric fans up to be controlled through the PCM. Lots of people make harnesses for them. Just have to add two pins in the PCM connector and enable it in the tuning.

Last thing...put the air filter somewhere that doesn't let it suck hot air off the side of the radiator or from under the hood.
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This, But Im pretty sure it would be a 246. I only say this cause the 261 is a heavy duty variant only found in the 2500s if I remember right. and I have no idea what a 263 although Ive heard the name lol.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
You're going to need something as short as possible, not to mention the front outputs are female and the driveshaft slides in to the case.
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i'll have to check again but I know it's got regular yokes on it just like a jeep case, but electric shift so will have to make a shifter for it (I'm not going through that wiring bs to keep it electric shift and he doesn't want that either.
Croatan_Kid said:
enable it in the tuning.
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ok not to sound dumb or uneducated but why would it need a tune? since when it's all done, the ECU doesn't know it's in a jeep, for all it cares it's "brain" still thinks it's in a yukon so I'm not following why a tune is needed...and that's fine if it does, I'm just trying to understand why. Many threads I've read up on the swap nobody mentioned needing a tune, unless it's cause of the 02 sensors/cats being changed?..
 
I'd go with a 231 by changing the input and using a super short SYE.

As far as tuning, you'll need to tune the ECU no matter what in order to remove the VATS. While you're in there it's the perfect time to enable both fans in discrete mode as @Croatan_Kid said.
 
Bebop said:
I'd go with a 231 by changing the input and using a super short SYE.

As far as tuning, you'll need to tune the ECU no matter what in order to remove the VATS. While you're in there it's the perfect time to enable both fans in discrete mode as @Croatan_Kid said.
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Oh forgot about that stuff, thanks
 
Funny thing is I'm laughing with you. I say that kinda stuff to myself everytime I do something out of my norm. That bronco I restored, when everything was stripped out and I mean every wire, lines all but bare frame and body, those are the moments I look and say "better remember where everything goes stupid" lol
 
I believe he might have an NP231C based on what he described.

and yes you HAVE to tune it for the chip key, otherwise it will start and run for about 1 second, and you need to turn the rear O2 sensors off. There’s a ton of people that can do that for you, @Chris_Keziah being one of them.
 
77GreenMachine said:
I believe he might have an NP231C based on what he described.

and yes you HAVE to tune it for the chip key, otherwise it will start and run for about 1 second, and you need to turn the rear O2 sensors off. There’s a ton of people that can do that for you, @Chris_Keziah being one of them.
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Sweet thank you. I will definitely reach out to him.
 
77GreenMachine said:
I believe he might have an NP231C based on what he described.

and yes you HAVE to tune it for the chip key, otherwise it will start and run for about 1 second, and you need to turn the rear O2 sensors off. There’s a ton of people that can do that for you, @Chris_Keziah being one of them.
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and he still has to figure out where he is pulling VSS feedback from.
Unless he is going to program it as a manual and then let the trans shift hydro only. Some do it that way but I mean the 4L60 is so relaible what could it hurt.
 
Ron said:
and he still has to figure out where he is pulling VSS feedback from.
Unless he is going to program it as a manual and then let the trans shift hydro only. Some do it that way but I mean the 4L60 is so relaible what could it hurt.
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Yeah I’m not up to speed on the VSS since everything I’ve dealt with has been to a TH350/400. I have heard of stand alone trans harnesses or something like that. Chris probably has useful input.
 
Ron said:
and he still has to figure out where he is pulling VSS feedback from.
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Started looking it up this morning but time to work lol, will look into it later thanks
 
Ron said:
and he still has to figure out where he is pulling VSS feedback from.
Unless he is going to program it as a manual and then let the trans shift hydro only. Some do it that way but I mean the 4L60 is so relaible what could it hurt.
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If you keep the NP231 and install a super short SYE. It has an integrated VSS on the TCase output shaft. You do need to wire the high/low switch to let the ECU know what range you're in too.
 
Bebop said:
If you keep the NP231 and install a super short SYE. It has an integrated VSS on the TCase output shaft. You do need to wire the high/low switch to let the ECU know what range you're in too.
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if I'm using the stock transfer case with the transmission wire harness and all it already has of the VSS into it therefore I wouldn't have to change anything..that was my thought but again I'm not there yet. Why I'm doing tons of research and parts before I even begin teardown.
 
Bebop said:
It's just long. But you're right.
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Yeah true. The way I see it as a give-and-take though. Use this case and you don't have to do with shifting issues, little longer driveshaft versus use the Jeep case a little shorter drive line but now you have to deal with the shifting wiring Fandango and buy SYE and input shaft and rebuild kit so I'm gonna mock it up with this one see how she looks
 
Ron said:
and he still has to figure out where he is pulling VSS feedback from.
Unless he is going to program it as a manual and then let the trans shift hydro only. Some do it that way but I mean the 4L60 is so relaible what could it hurt.
Click to expand...

if he uses the factory transfer case, VSS is already incorporated, so no issues. If he is using an aftermarket transfer case, they’re are lots of options depending on trans and transfer case chosen.

the adapter to a non GM transfer case should have provisions for a VSS if using the electronic transmission. If you really want to dumb it down, use a TH400/350 with whatever transfer case you want and do away with a VSS entirely.
 
rockcity said:
uses the factory transfer case, VSS is already incorporated, so no issues.
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That's what I'm shooting for before spending money on the jeep case conversion
 
marty79 said:
That's what I'm shooting for before spending money on the jeep case conversion
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if using the factory case, you will want to electrically shift it, which I thought you said the customer was totally against.
The sensor that tells the ECM what the tcase is in (2,4hi/4lo) is triggered by the electric shifter. If this signal isnt input to the ECM it will go into limp mode to protect itself
 
DonYukon said:
This, But Im pretty sure it would be a 246. I only say this cause the 261 is a heavy duty variant only found in the 2500s if I remember right. and I have no idea what a 263 although Ive heard the name lol.
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The 246 is AutoTrac. Hi, low, Auto. 261 is manual shift, 263 is electric. The 261/263 HD were in 6.0 gas 2500HDs, and 261/263XHD were in Duramax trucks and 8.1s. Any matched 261 or 263 are the same thing, but anything that ends in 1 is manual and 3 means electronic shifting. Don't try me on my GM transfer case knowledge :D

@marty79 you keep saying "stock" transfer case. Post a picture of it so it can be identified and not guess about it.

If it has a regular, fixed front output, then it's not the stock one. Stock was a 246, 261, or 263. Whether you use a 231C, 241C, or any GM, chain drive variant from 1988 or or later, it'll have a VSS on it. Anything that ends in a 1 is manual shift, chain drive, and driver's side drop. As mentioned, you'll have to plug in to the low range switch or the transmission will not shift when you put it in low range. If you're trying to use an electric shift case and shift it manually, don't. Just get a manual shift case. The electronic cases DO NOT have a low range switch. The encoder (shift) motor tells the PCM when it's in low range. All of this stuff is VERY easy to do and is plug and play with the correct wiring. Seriously, an NP241 with an SYE is going to be the easiest, strongest, and probably cheapest way to go. I think you may be underestimating how short the rear driveline will be. Not to mention the pinion snout will probably be longer on whatever axle you swap in it, AND it'll probably need a CV shaft in the rear.

Also, I didn't say TUNE it for the fans, I said ENABLE it in the PCM. The 411 PCM has the capability of controlling electric fans off/on/speed based above or below. However, GM trucks didn't use electric fans until 2005. The add on harness, relays, and wiring are pinned in to two empty pins in the PCM connector, you HAVE to tell the PCM that it's there via something like HP Tuners or it won't work. It's very simple and you're going to have to go in the PCM anyway during a swap like this to turn off or on certain functions, codes, likely rear 02 sensors, and if you use the VSS to drive the speedometer (which I would) you'll have to correct the speedometer for gears/tire size. You might as well have it tuned while they're in there. It won't cost any extra. Oh...and the fan(s) will kick on high when the AC is cut on with one of those harnesses as well. Very helpful.

@77GreenMachine there's no chip in the key for 99-06ish trucks, but he'll definitely need to disable VATS or, like you said, it won't run.

@rockcity you still need a VSS even when you run a standalone engine harness so it'll know when to idle properly. I believe @XJsavage can confirm this.


Does anyone else need me to drop the mic? :D Phew...that was a lot of typing. Did I miss anything?

For the record...putting stuff where it doesn't belong (giggity), LS swaps, GM drivetrains, and tuning/wiring is kinda my jam.
 
Croatan_Kid said:
The 246 is AutoTrac. Hi, low, Auto. 261 is manual shift, 263 is electric. The 261/263 HD were in 6.0 gas 2500HDs, and 261/263XHD were in Duramax trucks and 8.1s. Any matched 261 or 263 are the same thing, but anything that ends in 1 is manual and 3 means electronic shifting. Don't try me on my GM transfer case knowledge :D

@marty79 you keep saying "stock" transfer case. Post a picture of it so it can be identified and not guess about it.

If it has a regular, fixed front output, then it's not the stock one. Stock was a 246, 261, or 263. Whether you use a 231C, 241C, or any GM, chain drive variant from 1988 or or later, it'll have a VSS on it. Anything that ends in a 1 is manual shift, chain drive, and driver's side drop. As mentioned, you'll have to plug in to the low range switch or the transmission will not shift when you put it in low range. If you're trying to use an electric shift case and shift it manually, don't. Just get a manual shift case. The electronic cases DO NOT have a low range switch. The encoder (shift) motor tells the PCM when it's in low range. All of this stuff is VERY easy to do and is plug and play with the correct wiring. Seriously, an NP241 with an SYE is going to be the easiest, strongest, and probably cheapest way to go. I think you may be underestimating how short the rear driveline will be. Not to mention the pinion snout will probably be longer on whatever axle you swap in it, AND it'll probably need a CV shaft in the rear.

Also, I didn't say TUNE it for the fans, I said ENABLE it in the PCM. The 411 PCM has the capability of controlling electric fans off/on/speed based above or below. However, GM trucks didn't use electric fans until 2005. The add on harness, relays, and wiring are pinned in to two empty pins in the PCM connector, you HAVE to tell the PCM that it's there via something like HP Tuners or it won't work. It's very simple and you're going to have to go in the PCM anyway during a swap like this to turn off or on certain functions, codes, likely rear 02 sensors, and if you use the VSS to drive the speedometer (which I would) you'll have to correct the speedometer for gears/tire size. You might as well have it tuned while they're in there. It won't cost any extra.

@77GreenMachine there's no chip in the key for 99-06ish trucks, but he'll definitely need to disable VATS or, like you said, it won't run.

@rockcity you still need a VSS even when you run a standalone engine harness so it'll know when to idle properly. I believe @XJsavage can confirm this.


Does anyone else need me to drop the mic? :D Phew...that was a lot of typing. Did I miss anything?

For the record...putting stuff where it doesn't belong (giggity), LS swaps, GM drivetrains, and tuning/wiring is kinda my jam.
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I can confirm that is most definitely @Croatan_Kid jam. It hit that mug up when I'm in a bind any day.
 
Sorry guys been super busy working. Almost done and I'll respond in a few. Thank you to everyone, I mean it, for all this huge amount of information!
 
Croatan_Kid said:
@marty79 you keep saying "stock" transfer case. Post a picture of it so it can be identified and not guess about it.
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I will thank you
 
Ron said:
if using the factory case, you will want to electrically shift it, which I thought you said the customer was totally against.
The sensor that tells the ECM what the tcase is in (2,4hi/4lo) is triggered by the electric shifter. If this signal isnt input to the ECM it will go into limp mode to protect itself
Click to expand...
Well dang, learning all kinda stuff that other reads I've done didn't mention! Oh boy, back to drawing board tonight lol.
 
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