"Gonna do it right...maybe!!??" Fuller's new XJ build!!!

BigSouth said:
I don't have words... I do however, have weenie's for the bonfire when this thing lights off. Hope I'm there to see it.
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that's really not funny...especially since it appears that it has happened to people, it doesn't seem to be something to joke about...I don't find that humorous at all to say that to anyone or their rig despite of your personal opinions! Careful what you wish upon others....karma has it's way of coming back around
 
marty79 said:
that's really not funny...especially since it appears that it has happened to people, it doesn't seem to be something to joke about...I don't find that humorous at all to say that to anyone or their rig despite of your personal opinions! Careful what you wish upon others....karma has it's way of coming back around
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I wouldn't "wish" anything bad on anyone. I just look at that back seat and can't help but feel scared for you. I've got 2 young kids that'll be wheeling with me on the regular and I can't help but think about their safety with every mod I do to a vehicle. If you won't take all the intelligent feedback your getting from other forum members seriously, don't be surprised when that karma comes back to haunt you.
 
Why don't you cut a hole in the floor line it with angle and then use the original tank straps across the top to hold it in. You'd have like 10 bucks in angle you have a welder. The reason those straps are unsafe is they are designed for light gauge duck work. A hard bounce and they could snap. Yes you could use rachet straps and 2x stuff but why when there is a much simpler and safer way. It has been done 100s of times all it takes is a Google such to find the info you wanted with pictures of how to do it correctly and safely once. Do it three times and spend 8 bucks each time or spend 10 once and be happy it's done right.

And I wasn't being an ass. You ask for someone opinion and advise then get mad when it doesn't align with what you've done. The Build threads on here are constantly asking for advise BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT DO IT DAILY AND GET PAYED TO DO IT. I will rig some stuff up just as fast as anyone ask Jody he talked me Into doing it the right way. Cost 6 bucks and a days wait but the safety factor went up 10 fold. The people on here get so pissed because you ask for advise and you don't take it. People get mad at you because truly they care about you and don't want you to get hurt or hurt anyone in your family or theirs.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
Oh MY GOD if you don't get off the gas tank crap I'm gonna reach through this screen and slap somebody LOL...I GOT THE TANK TAKEN CARE OF >>>>IT'S STILL IN THE MAKING, and with someone's picture earlier, now I see the visual of the idea I had from the getgo...PLEASE for the love of God enough with this tank...thank you
 
BigSouth said:
I wouldn't "wish" anything bad on anyone. I just look at that back seat and can't help but feel scared for you. I've got 2 young kids that'll be wheeling with me on the regular and I can't help but think about their safety with every mod I do to a vehicle. If you won't take all the intelligent feedback your getting from other forum members seriously, don't be surprised when that karma comes back to haunt you.
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I hear you bud, I got a wife and daughter that rides too..well on easy stuff and just for fun...and their safety is my #1 priority (several know this from being around me at the parks when we went) so trust me, I'm all about safety for them and others
 
marty79 said:
it up at a perfect angle to transfer case and grinding down the Inner C's to turn them back to proper angle once the pinion is set.
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Why would you waste time doing a cut and turn on that shitty axle?
 
Loganwayne said:
The reason those straps are unsafe is they are designed for light gauge duck work.
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farmer-duck.jpg


shawn said:
Why would you waste time doing a cut and turn on that shitty axle?
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Seriously. Just put a driveshaft in like the CJs have and the pinion won't have to be pointed right at the tcase. You will need to find a new yoke for the np231 but it will bolt in.
B2LT-131-131_575x65.jpg
 
marty79 said:
And hate to burst yours & everyone else's bubble but all the crap you all talked about my last jeep was totally just that...crap.because that jeep outlasted and outperformed everyone's bs opinions including my own expectations
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That's why it went to the crusher?
 
shawn said:
Why would you waste time doing a cut and turn on that shitty axle?
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well cause it's what I have and eventually will get chromolly for it so it can handle all the 37s would need so why not make it right...that was my thought anyways
obullfish said:
That's why it went to the crusher?
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hahaha, no it went to crusher cause I sold off everything when we had to relocate here and needed the money to get ahead a little
 
Yall are giving Mr Fuller a hard time for no reason. He's a good hard working God fearing man doing the best with what he has at his disposal.

It's not a bad gas tank mount.
Looks like he used 16d nails to attach the boards not cheap 8d stuff.
Plus he has at least 4 strap hangers
Maybe 6 can't tell from the pics.
Plus like 2-3 screws per strap. That's a lot of holding power. Perforated hanging strap has a working weight ratingbof 50lbs. So with 4 it should hold at least, what 2o0lbs? And no way that tank weighs that much. I mean the tank weighs 40lbs, maybe,? Add in 20 galllons of gas at 7lbs per gallon..that's still only 180lbs.
Plus gravity is holding that tank down, it's not like it will fly away.
The only two concerns I have, and they are minor to be sure:
1- there appears to be a strap and screw near the rear seat belt. I'd make sure the belt couldn't rub on that...safety first
2- there are only 2 straps running front to back, so if he stopped quickly only those two straps prevent the tank from moving forward.
So since force =mass*acceleration. And the tank weighs 280(above estimate) let's say he suddenly applied brakes and went from 10miles per hour to zero in 1 second. That is an acceleration (deceleration) of 52,800 feet per hour per second or 14.667 ft
So we will use 14 for our acceleration value.
280 * 14 = 3,920 lb ft of force.
Since the straps are rated at 50lbs..in the above stopping scenario he would be a few straps short. Adding about 76 more straps front to rear only should make this perfectly safe.

@shawn or @jeepinmatt or @Fabrik8 can check my math
 
Ron said:
Yall are giving Mr Fuller a hard time for no reason. He's a good hard working God fearing man doing the best with what he has at his disposal.

It's not a bad gas tank mount.
Looks like he used 16d nails to attach the boards not cheap 8d stuff.
Plus he has at least 4 strap hangers
Maybe 6 can't tell from the pics.
Plus like 2-3 screws per strap. That's a lot of holding power. Perforated hanging strap has a working weight ratingbof 50lbs. So with 4 it should hold at least, what 2o0lbs? And no way that tank weighs that much. I mean the tank weighs 40lbs, maybe,? Add in 20 galllons of gas at 7lbs per gallon..that's still only 180lbs.
Plus gravity is holding that tank down, it's not like it will fly away.
The only two concerns I have, and they are minor to be sure:
1- there appears to be a strap and screw near the rear seat belt. I'd make sure the belt couldn't rub on that...safety first
2- there are only 2 straps running front to back, so if he stopped quickly only those two straps prevent the tank from moving forward.
So since force =mass*acceleration. And the tank weighs 280(above estimate) let's say he suddenly applied brakes and went from 10miles per hour to zero in 1 second. That is an acceleration (deceleration) of 52,800 feet per hour per second or 14.667 ft
So we will use 14 for our acceleration value.
280 * 14 = 3,920 lb ft of force.
Since the straps are rated at 50lbs..in the above stopping scenario he would be a few straps short. Adding about 76 more straps front to rear only should make this perfectly safe.

@shawn or @jeepinmatt or @Fabrik8 can check my math
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1g is 32 ft/s/s right?

So if he accelerates at -1G, then would the forward force be equal to normal static weight of the tank ?

Or would it be deceleration of 1g....

So a negative acceleration from 21 mph to 0 happening in 1 second.

Or a positive deceleration from 21 mph to 0 in 1/60 of a minute.

:trollol: :stirpot:
 
Ron said:
Yall are giving Mr Fuller a hard time for no reason. He's a good hard working God fearing man doing the best with what he has at his disposal.

It's not a bad gas tank mount.
Looks like he used 16d nails to attach the boards not cheap 8d stuff.
Plus he has at least 4 strap hangers
Maybe 6 can't tell from the pics.
Plus like 2-3 screws per strap. That's a lot of holding power. Perforated hanging strap has a working weight ratingbof 50lbs. So with 4 it should hold at least, what 2o0lbs? And no way that tank weighs that much. I mean the tank weighs 40lbs, maybe,? Add in 20 galllons of gas at 7lbs per gallon..that's still only 180lbs.
Plus gravity is holding that tank down, it's not like it will fly away.
The only two concerns I have, and they are minor to be sure:
1- there appears to be a strap and screw near the rear seat belt. I'd make sure the belt couldn't rub on that...safety first
2- there are only 2 straps running front to back, so if he stopped quickly only those two straps prevent the tank from moving forward.
So since force =mass*acceleration. And the tank weighs 280(above estimate) let's say he suddenly applied brakes and went from 10miles per hour to zero in 1 second. That is an acceleration (deceleration) of 52,800 feet per hour per second or 14.667 ft
So we will use 14 for our acceleration value.
280 * 14 = 3,920 lb ft of force.
Since the straps are rated at 50lbs..in the above stopping scenario he would be a few straps short. Adding about 76 more straps front to rear only should make this perfectly safe.

@shawn or @jeepinmatt or @Fabrik8 can check my math
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Oh boy....

My number of straps is slightly different. :D

From the pictures, there are exactly 4 perforated straps and 6 pieces of wood too many.
 
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Ron said:
Yall are giving Mr Fuller a hard time for no reason. He's a good hard working God fearing man doing the best with what he has at his disposal.

It's not a bad gas tank mount.
Looks like he used 16d nails to attach the boards not cheap 8d stuff.
Plus he has at least 4 strap hangers
Maybe 6 can't tell from the pics.
Plus like 2-3 screws per strap. That's a lot of holding power. Perforated hanging strap has a working weight ratingbof 50lbs. So with 4 it should hold at least, what 2o0lbs? And no way that tank weighs that much. I mean the tank weighs 40lbs, maybe,? Add in 20 galllons of gas at 7lbs per gallon..that's still only 180lbs.
Plus gravity is holding that tank down, it's not like it will fly away.
The only two concerns I have, and they are minor to be sure:
1- there appears to be a strap and screw near the rear seat belt. I'd make sure the belt couldn't rub on that...safety first
2- there are only 2 straps running front to back, so if he stopped quickly only those two straps prevent the tank from moving forward.
So since force =mass*acceleration. And the tank weighs 280(above estimate) let's say he suddenly applied brakes and went from 10miles per hour to zero in 1 second. That is an acceleration (deceleration) of 52,800 feet per hour per second or 14.667 ft
So we will use 14 for our acceleration value.
280 * 14 = 3,920 lb ft of force.
Since the straps are rated at 50lbs..in the above stopping scenario he would be a few straps short. Adding about 76 more straps front to rear only should make this perfectly safe.

@shawn or @jeepinmatt or @Fabrik8 can check my math
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I can't believe u went through all that math just to be funny lol lol ur first statement is very true thank u. From there on, well that gave me good laughs. :beer:
 
So I'll weigh in on the gas tank discussion, because that horse apparently isn't quite dead yet.

There's exactly one thing to think about: If the tank is half-recessed into the trunk floor, or is under the trunk floor, it's much easier to direct any impact (from the tank wanting to move) into the trunk floor, which is very strong. So then most of what you're left with is a way to keep the tank from lifting, as the strength of the floor is keeping it from moving side-to-side or front-to-back (laterally or longitudinally for my type of people).

You've got a welder, take some simple square tubing and make a false floor below the trunk floor, and make a square ring around the cutout in the trunk floor, and then make some straps to go over the top of the fuel cell to retain it. You're really just making a super simple basket for the fuel cell. Mitered and welded joints, no bending necessary.
You can also do that above the tank floor, in the location that you have the tank now, but it would be much better to lower the CG of the entire chassis by lowering the CG height of the fuel cell.

So here's a fairly generic picture of what I'm talking about. This is a track car obviously, so it needs to take more impact with a much larger tank than you have, but I want to show how simple the design for the tank "basket" is. Note the large ring of 2x2 tubing; that's what's actually keeping the tank from going anywhere under regular (horizontal) impacts. Everything else just keeps it moving up or down during and after that (if the car rolls, etc.).

My point is that with only a little work, you can make the existing chassis and trunk floor area really do a lot of work for you.

55511.jpg


And to complete the picture, this is what simple (and super strong) straps can look like if the fuel cell is located in the right place. You can see that the tubing has sleeve inserts welded into the tubing to keep it from crushing, just like any proper bolted joint of that type.

Pens%20Car%2022%20GAL%20FUEL%20CELL.jpg


This doesn't have to be complex in order to be very strong and very safe. You could use a lot less tubing than that (in the "basket") for the type of impacts you would actually see.
 
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Now I'm just laughing that the gas tank is still alive in discussion but I'm sure I will adopt one of these ideas when I get back to working on it after I get axles/lift/steering all done...and tcase
 
marty79 said:
Now I'm just laughing that the gas tank is still alive in discussion but I'm sure I will adopt one of these ideas when I get back to working on it after I get axles/lift/steering all done...and tcase
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It's alive because it needs to be, and because it's a very valid discussion for many people here who are building something.

Now get that tank waaaayy lower down! :D

Seriously though, just start thinking about a very simple version of the race car setup I posted, and you'll be fine. There's nothing wrong with bent flat straps too, as long as they don't need to take the horizontal force in a collision, etc.
 
marty79 said:
Front Axle: thinking to aim it up at a perfect angle to transfer case and grinding down the Inner C's to turn them back to proper angle once the pinion is set. I suppose grinding down the welds isn't too bad but my concern is welding them back together...will my welder be able to do it? Everything I've welded on axles and unibody has never failed...even before I knew of "double passes" so I can weld pretty descent but will that job in all seriousness require a 220welder to really burn them back in....
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Is there any more opinions on this other than its a crappy axle? Once I set this up I plan on keeping the front and just upgrade to chromolly eventually which that with the rear D60 will handle all the 37s could throw at it and be a solid setup..for me anyways so that's why I'm curious about doing this mod maybe
 
I know a good driveshaft can help but still crappy angle doesn't help. My last jeep never had issues with driveshaft except the tube being too weak but joints allowed all the wheelspin I wanted flexed at any angle without binding so no breakage. And since my lift looks like going to be 6-8" to clear the 37s good that front pinion I doubt will work leaving it factory tilt. Maybe I'm over thinking this until I start on the front but trying to get some ideas
 
Remember a few pages ago I mentioned using at least a HP44 due getting better driveline angles?
Remember that?
By using a drivers drop HP diff you will get the following:
Better driveline angles
No need for any exhaust mods
Plenty of room when/if you a 231/300 doubler. You do know how tight the front driveshaft will get to the starter with a pass drop diff and a doubler? I do...
Can reuse NP231 case
More gear strength compared to a low pinion
There's plenty more buddy.

Ditch that garbage front axle and grab a HP front. It'll make your life so much easier with a better final product.
 
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