My First Jeep CJ

Discussion in 'Build Threads' started by Creekin, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    For the rear, I hope to add disc brakes with a 5x5.5" bolt pattern. The rotors need to be ~11.75" so they fit under 15" wheels.
    I have a set of 1988 Caddy calipers with integrated E-Brake.

    However, I have run into a snag.
    The OD of the new axles (about 7 1/8")( does not fit into the hat for the rotors I have from either the CJ, the waggy, or the Scout.
    Went to the store and tried some rotors from a 77-78 Bronco. Same problem. The ID of where of the rotor where the rotor hat is just under 7".
    Really don't want to grind down the OD of the new axles so they fit into the rotor hat.

    RB 1.jpg RB 2.jpg

    I know they sell rear disc brake conversion kits for CJ's and Scouts.
    Just trying to figure out which rotor to use.
    Maybe I have to use a rear rotor 5x5.5" that was designed with a drum brake type E-Brake?

    Any ideas?
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
  2. rodney eppes

    rodney eppes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Location:
    Mt.Holly NC 28120
    Been some time since I looked into this. But Do recall, the Only rear disc brake set-up For Scout, is a GM style, with the outboard e-brake [which is useless]. You get the weld - on- axle mount, for the caliper. Probably any full size caliper will fit the mount. And I guess the rotor would be any full size 5x5 1/2 lug pattern. Might need longer lug bolts as the rotor would be bolted on them. You can Goggle "rear disc brake kits" & work from there, Or, goggle the Scout / IH parts, & see what they offer! Also "Binder Parts", plus Binder/Scout forums. I Searched All those sources, for a disc brake kit, with Hat style e-brake. Supposedly Can't be done, due to Scout using an Oddball flange! Go figure.
    If you choose to run the GM caliper, I'd forget trying to hook up & getting the useless e-brake to work. Just add a Micro-Lock brake, & be done with it. Leave the E-foot brake installed [unhooked], in case some smarty Safety inspector wants to see it.
     
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  3. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    Looking around, it appears that vented rotors from a four door 1997 Geo Tracker will work.
    When they arrive, I will update...
     
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  4. rodney eppes

    rodney eppes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Location:
    Mt.Holly NC 28120
    Hum. Isuzu had D-44 rear with disc, & maybe some Honda breeds, too.
     
  5. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    Time to build up the new axles.
    To start with, needed to get the old disc brake backing plate and the bearing retaining pieces off the old axles.
    The pieces of the old backing plate needed to be cut out and used as the required spacer.

    To accomplish all this, first, the old bearing retainer needed to be drilled and then split it with a chisel.

    O5.jpg O6.jpg

    Then the old roller bearings come off

    RB1.jpg RB2.jpg

    Now the old backing plate comes and bearing retaining plate are slid off the axle.
    Then the inner portion of the bearing is removed

    RB3.jpg

    The part of the backing plate this is needed is cut off

    L4.jpg L3.jpg L2.jpg

    Some time with a wire brush and paint from a rattle can, and the retaining plate and backing plate were made ready for install onto the new axles
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
  6. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    To get the axles ready, new longer wheel studs (1/2"-20 0.627" Knurl by 1-15/16" [NAPA part # NOE 6414265) needed to be pressed into the axle.
    A 20 Ton press really helps in this situation.

    L1.jpg P1.jpg

    With the wheel studs pressed in, the bearing retaining plate, the backing plate, and bearing seal were slid onto the axle.
    The Timken Set 10 bearing and retaining ring were slid onto the axle and then pressed into position.
    For pressing on new bearing and retaining ring, the old bearing retaining ring was used to distribute the forces onto the new ring.

    F2.jpg BPR 1.jpg BPR 2.jpg BPR 3.jpg

    The new axles were installed and fasteners hand tighten.

    PR1.jpg PR4.jpg

    Next, its time to install the OX cover.
    Oops, the cover does not slide into position.
    The large "C" on the Ox cover that is used to move the locking piece into position inside of the differential hits a tab on then inside of the diff, as seen in the top of the photo below.

    AI1C.jpg

    Take every out of the rear diff and then grind the tab down .
    Now the OX cover's "C" slides into place.

    OX 1.jpg OX 2.jpg
     

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    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
  7. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    The Geo rotors came in for the rear disc brake conversion.
    Good news! They fit over the outer diameter of the Scout axle, as shown below:

    B3.jpg B4.jpg

    With the rotor temporarily in place, time to see if the 86 Caddy calipers with integrated E-Brake and the mounting bracket might work

    B5.jpg B6.jpg

    Looks like everything might work. May have to do a bit of trimming to the bracket to get it to seat onto the axle though.

    B1.jpg

    Hope to get this system setup and welded into position soon
     
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  8. paradisePWoffrd

    paradisePWoffrd Recovering Project Junkie

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Location:
    Newton, NC
    Make sure you can still get those bearing bolts/nuts out when you put the brake bracket on.
     
  9. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    May some head way with the rear brakes this weekend.

    Modified the rear brake bracket to fit onto the axle (next time I will likely try the 3 inch vs. the 2.75 inch bracket).
    This allowed the pads to sit better onto the rotor

    Front Brake Clearance.jpg

    Also made made some small pieces to stiffen up the bracket. They will also serve as a guard for the brake line.
    Used the E-Brake to lock the pads in place while everything was being tacked into place.

    Tighenting Pads.jpg

    The caliper location was to allow for E-Brake cable to be installed and to allow three of the four bolts to be replaced if needed (Thx Ben for the heads up on that one).
    After it was tacked into place, checked the clearance for 15" wheels

    Wheel Clearance.jpg Brake Line.jpg

    The caliper and axles were removed as to prevent the heat from the welding to damage the axle seals and bearings
    Welded the brackets and the stiffening pieces onto the axle.

    Brake Bracket 1.jpg Brake Bracket.jpg

    Mounted the caliper to make sure everything stayed in place during welding.
    So far so good...

    Brakes.jpg

    Then onto the other side

    Brakes 2m.jpg

    Now ready to install the axle
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
    Andy J. and rodney eppes like this.
  10. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    With the rear brakes on the axle, time to see how the axle will look on the Jeep

    Axle Install.jpg

    Now to install the rear wheels and tires to see what lift height will look like

    Lift Clearance 1.jpg Lift Clearance 2.jpg

    And how much the additional width will look like

    Side Out 1.jpg Side Out 2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
    rodney eppes likes this.
  11. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    With the rear axle installed, time to work on the stuff needed to mount the front axle.

    Warrior Welder came by and did some amazing work.
    We made new leaf spring hanger boxes from 1/4" 3x3 angle iron . Each piece of angle iron was about 6" long.

    Since YJ 2.5" springs are being used along with poly bushing with a 1/4" outer lip, the boxes needed to have a 3" spacing.
    For each box, one side of the angle iron was trimmed.
    After which, each box was had two pieces of angle iron (one trimmed and one not trimmed) were welded together to have a 3" wide spring hanger box.
    The spring hangers boxes with three inch spacing are shown below.

    B1.jpg B2.jpg B7.jpg

    The tubing and washer was used to maintain the 3" spacing during the welding process.
    As shown above, one end of the bracket was boxed and then the 9/16" holes were drilled to for the leaf spring hanger.

    Originally, the distance center-to-center of the frame rail for the Scout axles was 31".
    The CJ frame rails are about 27" center-to-center where the front axle is mounted.
    Therefore, the part of new spring hangers have to be mounted outside of the frame rails and some of the hanger will be under the frame rail.
    So the new spring hangers were welded onto 7.5" long 3x3 1/4" pieces of angle iron.

    B4.jpg B5.jpg

    One thing for sure about Warrior Welder, he sure knows how to weld.
    Some of the nicest work I have ever seen.

    Gussets were made to stiffen up the bracket and welded into place.
    After double checking our measurements and placement of the brackets, the new spring boxes were welded onto frame rail.

    WB1.jpg WB2.jpg

    With the eye hangers installed, next will be the front brackets for the shackles.
    I cannot thank Warrior Welder enough for all his help.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  12. WARRIORWELDING

    WARRIORWELDING Owner opperator Of WarriorWelding LLC.

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Location:
    Chillin, Hwy 64 Mocksville NC
    I'll hold the squirt gun and lend a hand measuring......You had a plan. I'm just a dude helping you get it done. I was amazed at how much that little cutting disk got done. This is truely a DIY build with basic shop tools with the addition to 1 grinder and a nice little welder. I'm still super impressed with that inverter Miller.
     
  13. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    With the rear axle installed and the back hangers for the front springs installed, time to build the front hangers for the front springs.
    Using some DOM tubing with a 1" ID they were welded to a 3"x3" by 1/4" thick angle iron.
    The angle iron was cut down on one side to 2 inches on the DOM end 1" on the other end.
    A 1.5" hole was drilled into the 2" side of the angle iron for the DOM tubing to slide through and welded.

    Front A.JPG
    Of course those welds are not mine, that's the work of Warrior Welder.

    One thing was to figure out was how to square up the DOM to the angle iron.
    Since the DOM sticks out 3/8" Warrior asked if I had any 3/8" pieces of metal laying around.
    Luckily, the anti wrap brackets are 3/8" and he used those pieces and a kind of jig to get things squared up and tacked
    I must say, Warrior got some serious skills.

    Front B.JPG

    Next the gussets were made up and the angle iron pieces were set to 31" on center located on the front of the frame.
    With everything tacked up, it was mine turn to weld.
    This is how the passenger side came out.

    Front C.JPG Front D.JPG Front E.JPG

    Now to see how the leaf spring will hang. So the shackles were quickly installed for an initial look.

    Front F.JPG Front G.JPG

    So far so good.
    Onto the Driver side.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
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  14. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    Had time today to make some gussets and weld in the driver side front hanger.

    DB1.jpg

    Of course there is the old "grinder and paint, to hide fact a welder I a'int.

    DB2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  15. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    Next in line was to install the springs and then see how the axle is going to look.
    Hopefully all those measurements and checking measurements paid off.

    DC3M.jpg DC2.jpg DC1.jpg

    So far looks like everything aligns.
    Next its time to grind down the axle's spring perch for the spring over.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  16. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    Start to work on the passenger spring perch for the front axle.
    One of the items is to grind down the top portion of the axle where the spring perch is going to sit

    FB2.jpg

    The next item was to make the brackets that are going to help set the pinion angle and hold the spring perch
    Started with a piece of 1/4" stock and drilled a 2.75" hole.

    FB1.jpg

    Then the brackets and a flat piece of 3" stock was welded together.

    FB3.jpg FB4.jpg

    The brackets allow for the rotation of the axle while adjusting the pinion angle.

    FB5.jpg

    Next is to modify the spring perch.
    More to follow.
     
  17. WARRIORWELDING

    WARRIORWELDING Owner opperator Of WarriorWelding LLC.

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Location:
    Chillin, Hwy 64 Mocksville NC
    [​IMG] upload_2018-10-14_22-31-28.jpeg [​IMG][​IMG]

    meant to send you these earlier......
     
  18. XJsavage

    XJsavage Warlock of Zante plantation

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2009
    Location:
    Sc
    The ID/OD situation is identical to what I ran into years ago doing a disc brake conversion on a 9". I eventually found a solution to it while I was at a junkyard. After pulling every 5 on 5.5 rotor known to man, I grabbed a set of early 2000s Dodge ram 1500 rotors and they slid right on perfectly. Only issue was the wheel studs on the 9 were not seating the rotor properly and a quick comparison of the two axle pointed out that the wheel studs on the Rams, even though the same size, have a longer neck that sticks out past the flange and is what actually seats the rotors. So you'll need a full set of wheel studs from the same vehicle if you do use those rotors.
     
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  19. rodney eppes

    rodney eppes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Location:
    Mt.Holly NC 28120
    Sounds like a thin spacer would also work. Just whichever is easier & your comfortable with.
     
  20. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    Since the Jeep is now sitting higher, the new old shocks will be an issue.
    The back shocks will definitely be too short.
    Maybe the Monroe shocks on the front can work on the back.
    They only had one trail ride on them.
    Looked on CL and found a lightly used set of Bilstein from a Chevy 2500.
    They were just a few bucks for all four.

    Shocks.jpg

    I only need the longer pair.
    Anyone need the shorter pair?

    The longer pair should work until things get sorted out and figure out what set of shocks would be best.
     
  21. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    Been working on the front axle.
    One item not thought of till now is that the casting on the passenger side of the pumpkin results in needing a wider U-Bolt and wider spring brackets at the top.
    Picked up some semi-round U-Bolts and made a spring bracket out of 1/4"

    AS14.jpg AS15.jpg

    The U-bolt for the driver side is noticeably smaller.

    Had to do some more grinding on the pumpkin to get the U-Bolts to sit right

    AS1.jpg AS2.jpg

    Since the drivers side spring perch allow for a one inch movement to position the axle forward, I thought why not...
    Forgot that you also have to drill a hole in the top plate so everything aligns.

    AS6.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
    Andy J. likes this.
  22. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    This time I ground down the tab inside of the pumpkin before the carrier was installed.

    AS17.jpg AS4.jpg

    This should make installing OX diff cover a lot easier
     
  23. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    Well, time to see how everything is going to work under the Jeep.
    To set the pinion angle, the axle was temporarily put under the jeep with all the U-Bolts.
    Then jack stands used to hold up the axle.

    AS7.jpg AS8.jpg AS11.jpg

    So far so good.
    Now the axle is ready to set the pinion angle and then weld on the C's to the end of the axle
    Hope to have about 6 degrees of caster when everything is installed.

    Just could not wait, had to see how the Jeep would look with wheels.
    So the drivers front wheel was propped up to about the right running height.

    AS10.jpg

    Looks like I will have a little more lift than when the CJ first came home.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
  24. rodney eppes

    rodney eppes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Location:
    Mt.Holly NC 28120
    Should have saved the Special Scout U bolt, that fits the pumpkin. Hope the pumpkin doesn't break from grinding so much out of it!
     
  25. Creekin

    Creekin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2018
    Location:
    Hickory
    Need to do some work to get the rear parking brake to work.
    Since the rear parking brake cables were new, thought they would be usable.
    One problem is that the cables were designed for drum brakes.
    Therefore, the exposed part of the cable was too long.

    EB4.jpg

    Some folks have shorten the cable, but the CJ needed the length because of the amount of lift
    So some square tubing and a washer were used as the spacer to take up the slack.
    The tubing was angled towards the center of the jeep.
    The washer is used to lock in the black part of the cable into place.
    The square tubing was then welded onto the bracket for the parking brake.

    EB7.jpg EB5.jpg EB6.jpg

    The parts were then installed onto the caliper

    EB2.jpg EB3.jpg

    Also shown above is the bracket to hold the flexible brake line in place.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
    drkelly, Andy J. and XJsavage like this.

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