Notre Dame burning....

Falko said:
Cliffsnotes:

God says "I'm taking my ball and going home" because we suck now.
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I think the Gavin Ashenden quote captured it best:

Christians understand what fire means. It either burns in judgement or purges in healing and preparation for restoration, healing and resurrection. The difference between them is repentance.
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JSJJ388 said:
Glad we are on the same page, I dont hold being so hate blinded against you either.
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So now Im blinded by my hate for Trump?
:confused:

I guess if that's the logic, I understand why my other logical points aren't getting anywhere.
 
JSJJ388 said:
Glad we are on the same page, I dont hold being so hate blinded against you either.
Click to expand...

This is the part that is so sad with the US right now.
If you knew @jeepinmatt (or me for that matter) you would know that
1) we are both pretty damn far on the conservative spectrum
2) both voted for Trump
3) both probably hate Hilary more than you, lol (just kidding a bit there)

But despite that I still can criticize behavior from friends.

I dont want to make this shit show of a thread worse, but I think there is a social point here that I was making that is getting lost.
I'm not good enough with typed words to get my point across, but I am going to try none the less.
Anytime you engage with another person, a civil, mature member of society thinks not only of their wants but also of others. It why my goats walk around just start humping the hot she goats, but if I do that they throw me out of the Victoria's secret and put me in jail. Just like you dont walk up and start screwing a hot woman without her consent (or your wife's lol...my goats have it made) your words and ideas are the same thing.

I'll give you an example from my life just a couple weeks ago. I design, sell and service large electrical equipment. Ive done it now 15 years and I am fairly decent at my job. I take great pride in knowing my product and doing right by my customers. Every piece of equipment we sell gets set in place using large cranes. I've probably watched...maybe 1,000? pick and sets in my career. But, I've never once been the guy operating the crane or writing the pick plan. That's not my expertise and I am well aware that even a guy who has only been doing that job a year has many multiples of my experience. A few weeks ago I was on site for a major delivery and it was a difficult pick. It took them about 4 hours to figure out how to lift the equipment because a site condition changed between the time the pick plan was written and the day of action. I knew the basic premise of what the challenge was, and the end result that had to happen. I instantly thought about 4 or 5 different ways it could be done. But I also knew that this was an experienced and professional crew at work. So I sat back and watched them look and measure and figure...and in the end they actually executed the pick one of the ways I thought about. Afterwards over dinner that I bought for the crew we were talking and I asked why they did it the way they did... and as the operator explained the challenges, without me asking he crossed off every other option I had considered plus 10 more I had never thought of. He was happy to explain to me his job and I was happy to learn.

That interaction was guided by my desire to learn and my desire to respect that operator and his ability.

The tweet yesterday was directed by Trump's desire to speak without consideration for the operators on the ground.

When you tell someone how to accomplish a task, the spoken words are "Do this this way" the unspoken words are "I know better than you because of my special situation (be it experience, knowledge, expertise, etc) position."

Understand if you are the type of guy that will walk p to a group of people working on something and in just a few moments offer advice, no one likes you. They may be nice to your face but when you walk away they all roll their eyes and say "get a load of that asshole".....that behavior "presumed supremacy" is one of the definitive traits of a narcissist. That isnt an attack, that is a stated clinical fact.

Final point...and remember this is coming from a fellow conservative....did you lash out and fell outrage when Obama talked about closing GITMO and saying there was a better way to gain intelligence when he was campaigning against water boarding and other grey area techniques?

I did. Know why? Because he was talking out of his ass about something he had insufficient knowledge about to have an opinion. Trump did the same thing yesterday.
 
Ron said:
This is the part that is so sad with the US right now.
If you knew @jeepinmatt (or me for that matter) you would know that
1) we are both pretty damn far on the conservative spectrum
2) both voted for Trump
3) both probably hate Hilary more than you, lol (just kidding a bit there)

But despite that I still can criticize behavior from friends.

I dont want to make this shit show of a thread worse, but I think there is a social point here that I was making that is getting lost.
I'm not good enough with typed words to get my point across, but I am going to try none the less.
Anytime you engage with another person, a civil, mature member of society thinks not only of their wants but also of others. It why my goats walk around just start humping the hot she goats, but if I do that they throw me out of the Victoria's secret and put me in jail. Just like you dont walk up and start screwing a hot woman without her consent (or your wife's lol...my goats have it made) your words and ideas are the same thing.

I'll give you an example from my life just a couple weeks ago. I design, sell and service large electrical equipment. Ive done it now 15 years and I am fairly decent at my job. I take great pride in knowing my product and doing right by my customers. Every piece of equipment we sell gets set in place using large cranes. I've probably watched...maybe 1,000? pick and sets in my career. But, I've never once been the guy operating the crane or writing the pick plan. That's not my expertise and I am well aware that even a guy who has only been doing that job a year has many multiples of my experience. A few weeks ago I was on site for a major delivery and it was a difficult pick. It took them about 4 hours to figure out how to lift the equipment because a site condition changed between the time the pick plan was written and the day of action. I knew the basic premise of what the challenge was, and the end result that had to happen. I instantly thought about 4 or 5 different ways it could be done. But I also knew that this was an experienced and professional crew at work. So I sat back and watched them look and measure and figure...and in the end they actually executed the pick one of the ways I thought about. Afterwards over dinner that I bought for the crew we were talking and I asked why they did it the way they did... and as the operator explained the challenges, without me asking he crossed off every other option I had considered plus 10 more I had never thought of. He was happy to explain to me his job and I was happy to learn.

That interaction was guided by my desire to learn and my desire to respect that operator and his ability.

The tweet yesterday was directed by Trump's desire to speak without consideration for the operators on the ground.

When you tell someone how to accomplish a task, the spoken words are "Do this this way" the unspoken words are "I know better than you because of my special situation (be it experience, knowledge, expertise, etc) position."

Understand if you are the type of guy that will walk p to a group of people working on something and in just a few moments offer advice, no one likes you. They may be nice to your face but when you walk away they all roll their eyes and say "get a load of that asshole".....that behavior "presumed supremacy" is one of the definitive traits of a narcissist. That isnt an attack, that is a stated clinical fact.

Final point...and remember this is coming from a fellow conservative....did you lash out and fell outrage when Obama talked about closing GITMO and saying there was a better way to gain intelligence when he was campaigning against water boarding and other grey area techniques?

I did. Know why? Because he was talking out of his ass about something he had insufficient knowledge about to have an opinion. Trump did the same thing yesterday.
Click to expand...


I see what you are saying with @jeepinmatt , I made an ASSumption, based on the comments here. Apologies, Im not a very tactful person and tend to not filter my thoughts.

I see Trumps words a little differently though. As the "Leader of The Free World" people expect him to have input on most everything. Now, was his tweet the most tactful way to say what he had to say? No. Do I think he meant well by it? Yes. I also think that many would have condemned him regardless of what he said. It was a valid idea, but more importantly he meant well with it. I certainly dont envy his position, damned if you do, damned if you dont IMO.
 
JSJJ388 said:
I see what you are saying with @jeepinmatt , I made an ASSumption, based on the comments here. Apologies, Im not a very tactful person and tend to not filter my thoughts.

I see Trumps words a little differently though. As the "Leader of The Free World" people expect him to have input on most everything. Now, was his tweet the most tactful way to say what he had to say? No. Do I think he meant well by it? Yes. I also think that many would have condemned him regardless of what he said. It was a valid idea, but more importantly he meant well with it. I certainly dont envy his position, damned if you do, damned if you dont IMO.
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I'm not attacking you, or even trying to argue. Just engage the conversation.
I dont hate the fact that Trump said "Wonder if flying water tankers could help"...the must act fast bit was a tad over the top...as if "Gee supreme leader...I never thoguht of that. We better quit sitting around and thinking lets get to work.

Let me try it another way. IIRC in another thread you said you were a structural designer, correct?
How do you like it when the developer tries to tell you how to build your building or where to put the beams? No doubt he is "the boss" he has the money...thats why he hires you the expert to do your part.
I want my President to understand its important to have the best trained fire fighters in the world. I have zero expectation that he know how to put out a fire.
I want him to know who is the best general to engage and dispatch the enemy. I dont expect him to write up the battle plan or hold the rifle.

Mr. Orange thinks he is the best qualified to do both and furthermore thinks all of us are too stupid to realize it. IMHO.
 
Ron said:
This is the part that is so sad with the US right now.
If you knew @jeepinmatt (or me for that matter)
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[raises hand] I personally know (and have met) more than 2 dozen members of this forum that share nearly identical beliefs as described.

The older you get, the more you realize that very little is black and white (Republican/Democrat) And then one day you realize you don't fit in EITHER "box"

I believe that only comes with age though. Along with having the self confidence and awareness to be able to criticize the actions of someone you have supported in the past. Be it family, friend, or politician.

BTW I agree with EVERYTHING Ron posted above...but have suggested to rigger to use spreader bars on an ERV installation, and been ignored, only to reject the installation because the top of the unit was caved in by the straps
 
Ron said:
When you tell someone how to accomplish a task, the spoken words are "Do this this way" the unspoken words are "I know better than you because of my special situation (be it experience, knowledge, expertise, etc) position."

Understand if you are the type of guy that will walk p to a group of people working on something and in just a few moments offer advice, no one likes you. They may be nice to your face but when you walk away they all roll their eyes and say "get a load of that asshole".....that behavior "presumed supremacy" is one of the definitive traits of a narcissist. That isnt an attack, that is a stated clinical fact.

Final point...and remember this is coming from a fellow conservative....did you lash out and fell outrage when Obama talked about closing GITMO and saying there was a better way to gain intelligence when he was campaigning against water boarding and other grey area techniques?

I did. Know why? Because he was talking out of his ass about something he had insufficient knowledge about to have an opinion. Trump did the same thing yesterday.
Click to expand...

I think I have a pretty good understanding of where most fall politically here, but all of that ^^^...is where I'm saying there are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too damn many feelings flying around. Emotional intelligence, 90% of all communication is unspoken, blah blah blah. But to me, the quoted scenarios are absolutely no different than @CasterTroy 's sig:

Saying you're offended is basically admitting you're incapable of controlling & managing your emotions so everyone else should do it for you

At the end of the day you can substitute asshole/narcissist/left winger/president/whatever, but it was my understanding as adults it was kind of expected to let that shit roll off your back and go through the proper channels to rectify the situation if it really was that big of a deal.
 
Nuntheless :popcorn:
 
The-Nun-Movie-2018-Photo-Synopsis-Conjuring-Spinoff.jpg
 
The cathedral was in really bad shape, with the roof literally decaying and falling in, lots of the famous gargoyles falling apart and having been held up with cheap PVC pipes etc.
It's no secret to the historians who documented the restorations... or lack thereof... that it was almost at, or maybe beyond the point of no return, in need of $100 million+ in repairs, which the church refused to put into it.
Basically they couldn't garner support to get it properly fixed.

Now.... hey look, already have pledges totaling > $300 million for repairs. While the loss of ancient artifacts and super cool old architecture is tragic... you really have to wonder...
Is this basically a case of insurance fraud?
What does any good 'ol boy do when the old barn out back is worth more in insurance payout than it's current usefulness or cost to repair?
How tight is your tin foil hat?
 
GotWood said:
As for the tweet i can only make this analogy. @marty79 giving advice to @MarsFab.

No offence John F. Your advise is probably better than mine.
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None taken I've learned to do better things with my time nowadays
 
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