Obamacare

That makes 36 places you can move to since a lot of you think everything sucks in America. As for me, I'll stay right here.
 
shawn said:
This is absolutely NOT how economics work. If anything, it is the exact opposite. No industry "grows to provide jobs", except perhaps for government itself.

Folks are also frequently conflating healthcare with healthcare insurance. They are not the same thing.
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ding ding ding this is the key

Cory said:
http://www.businessinsider.com/best-healthcare-systems-in-the-world-2012-6?op=1
Not even close to best
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this is a prime example.
That article isn't about the quality of care itself or the likelihood of a positive outcome, its about availability and cost per individual.

The US is the best place to be receiving health care, with very few exceptions. That is, if you need services, you're far better off doing it here than anywhere else. The *quality* of care is better. Tell me how many cases you find of people leaving the US to go elsewhere b/c they can get better treatment?

Where we fail is in health care insurance and the distribution of the costs. We spend way too much money per person, and put that burden on a disproportionate group of payers. That is a very different issue from how we actually provide care.
 
Cory said:
http://www.businessinsider.com/best-healthcare-systems-in-the-world-2012-6?op=1
Not even close to best
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Sigh...its hard to have a discussion or debate with you when you throw out red herrings and strawmen at every turn.

This report doesnt state these countries have the best healthcare...it says

The rankings are based on an index of five factors — health, health equality, responsiveness, responsiveness equality, and fair financial contribution. As noted above, all data is from 2000 or earlier and these findings have been questioned.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/best-healthcare-systems-in-the-world-2012-6?op=1#ixzz2xN8cZa5C
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First the data is 15 years old.
Second we werent talking about health equality..we were talking about top notch world class health care. When you medical treaatments consists of leeches, if everyone gets the leeches you have great equality but poor quality. Same goes for responsive equality. When your entire country is the size of URE guess what, everyone gets responded to about the same.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Where we fail is in health care insurance and the distribution of the costs. We spend way too much money per person, and put that burden on a disproportionate group of payers. That is a very different issue from how we actually provide care.
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Easy Dave...you are about to suggest that lower income earners actually should be paying MORE for healthcare...be careful or heads might explode...
 
Cory said:
I am defiantly talkin about health equality Wtf are you talking about
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Healthcare quality. Which is different from "equality".

Which would you rather have - equally crappy healthcare for everybody, or the opportunity for good healthcare at higher cost?
I would much rather have the opportunity for good service if/when I need it, and make the choice to pay more than be stuck in a system where that option dos not even exist. E.g. most other countries.

The whole point of Obamacare is, in fact, to provide "equality". They are just going about it wrong to get there.
 
Well from my understanding Obamacare is really only the subsidy. Yes it is also the mandate that you get penalized for not having insurance. The insurance that I bought for my wife was thru BCBSNC without a subsidy. The reason why I bought this insurance was mine was going to double and it was more cost effective for us to have my wife on her own plan. So are you going to pay the fine or you going to sign up?

Dave
 
Ive had insurance since the day my son was born when I was 21. I have to assume you do not have kids?

If you have kids and dont have insurance that is just plain irresponsible.
 
Ron said:
If you have kids and dont have insurance that is just plain irresponsible.
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This is so true. Anyone who disagrees needs their head examined.
 
Cory said:
Don't get obamacare , was that really a question ?
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you do know that :"obamacare" isn't an insurance plan right? It's not something that people "get".
 
Obamacare is a law (set of laws), The Affordable Care Act. Its just a structure that dictates how companies administer the costs.

Saying that you "buy" or "get" Obamacare" is like saying you get your Internet service from the FCC or buy a car from NHSTA
I'd suggest you go get your facts straight before giving people advice.
 
To me the fact my insurance is skyrocketing. Insurance in general is obamacare. The fact I was getting insurance at a decent cost now I'd be paying 400% what I was.

It's so get and buy is me referring to being Fucked by this law through insurance
 
So just because I make a few dollars more, Joe Blow gets his health insurance plan for $30 a month after tax credits and I get zero tax credits and have to pay $230 a month. I currently do not have health insurance (and do not go to the doctor) so I am going to be penalized because I do not go to the doctor and do not wish to pay $230 a month for coverage. Granted I may make the decision to get coverage here soon as I am getting older. But it seems to me a percentage of my tax is going to people that don't work (which it has been already I.e. Medicaid) and now also people that work low paying jobs. I mean damn I am already getting penalized for working so much overtime now I am getting penalized for making a middle class amount of money and also not having health insurance. Where does it end?
 
i don't care how you do the math, 80 thousand dollars for a one to two hour helicopter ride is insane. yes I understand the cost of having a helicopter and a pilot, and a medical person on board. 2million cost of helicopter. whats does the pilot make a year? 100,000? the on board doctor, 100,000? I don't know. don't have a clue what insurance would cost for this either, can you get it thru geico? this is one of the many reasons why normal hard working people cant afford health care. we give free health care to illegal immigrants that don't pay any income taxes. hell we even gave free health care to suddam hussein before they hung his ass.
 
dodgedog said:
i don't care how you do the math, 80 thousand dollars for a one to two hour helicopter ride is insane. yes I understand the cost of having a helicopter and a pilot, and a medical person on board. 2million cost of helicopter. whats does the pilot make a year? 100,000? the on board doctor, 100,000? I don't know. don't have a clue what insurance would cost for this either, can you get it thru geico? this is one of the many reasons why normal hard working people cant afford health care. we give free health care to illegal immigrants that don't pay any income taxes. hell we even gave free health care to suddam hussein before they hung his ass.
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Just FYI....
... I am NOT saying we should be subsidizing care for people who come illegally or don't do their fair share... but...
In many countries, any visitor gets care, whether you are just there to work part time, visiting relatives, on vacation, or just passing through.
I have often heard it said said that you can tell a lot about a person's morals by how they treat their guests.

Just something to think about.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Just FYI....
... I am NOT saying we should be subsidizing care for people who come illegally or don't do their fair share... but...
In many countries, any visitor gets care, whether you are just there to work part time, visiting relatives, on vacation, or just passing through.
I have often heard it said said that you can tell a lot about a person's morals by how they treat their guests.

Just something to think about.
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first... I cant spell, I apologize to any who read my posts. lol second. don't bring morals into this, they left the building along time ago. I don't mind paying for MY health care. I don't want to pay for anybody elses. ive worked and payed taxes and payed out of pocket for my healthfor 29 years. why should people who haven't contributed ANYTHING get free health care when I cant. im 45 and have diabetes (non insulin dependent yet) and I don't have insurance. I pay for everything myself. most insurance companys ive talked with want 680 to 750 month for insurance. plus they want me to sign a rider that says they wont cover anything diabetes related for 1 to 2 years. that's 8000 a year for something that does nothing. I make about 40 to 45k ayear. that's means I have to work 2 and half to 3 months a year just for insurance at that rate. lucky im in good health, take my diabetes serious and try to stay healthy, fingers crossed. Obama care says im not supposed to be penalized for pre existing conditions, but I haven't checked. sorry for the long post
 
dodgedog said:
i don't care how you do the math, 80 thousand dollars for a one to two hour helicopter ride is insane. yes I understand the cost of having a helicopter and a pilot, and a medical person on board. 2million cost of helicopter. whats does the pilot make a year? 100,000? the on board doctor, 100,000? I don't know. don't have a clue what insurance would cost for this either, can you get it thru geico? this is one of the many reasons why normal hard working people cant afford health care. we give free health care to illegal immigrants that don't pay any income taxes. hell we even gave free health care to suddam hussein before they hung his ass.
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Capitalism at it's best. They have a service you desperately need and willing to pay whatever it takes. They have the market cornered, are you going to fly yourself to the hospital? Not that I agree with the cost, just saying that's what happens when costs are not kept in check by a governing body.


On a side note, I used to work for CMC on the side doing security. They do so much construction and remodeling in order to spend money to show they are a not for profit. It's a scam. They remodeled the er at least once a year.
 
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