Steel sided and framed homes.

shawn said:
Did you do any sort of cost analysis vs conventional stick? Very curious to know how your numbers worked out.
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Yes. I had 3 builders price it stick. They were all within a few dollars per square foot of one another with stick/siding construction:

$130-$145 for heated areas (apartment grade finishes)
$35-$45 for workshop (uninsulated 12 ft sides)
$15 for lean-to

Then I had one of the builders price it post and frame, along with carolina post and frame and Morton. The custom builder was less than carolina, and Morton was nearly the same as stick built. But with Morton you have 3 levels of their product. Their pricing was for the base model. I can't imagine what the "bells and whistles" pricing looked like.

Carolina Post and Frame said:
........$90 a sq ft for heated areas, $25 a sq ft for workshop areas, $10 a sq ft for leantos or extended gable canopy areas, $25 a sq ft for finished porch areas. This includes turnkey work. Concrete the whole works. Fixtures included in the heated area along with all painting and flooring. This should give you an idea.......
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Also priced red iron, but my site wasn't conducive to square. I corresponded with 2 different outfits that people used on here, but I deleted that folder after speaking to both and them basically telling me that with my size constraints I would have better luck with post and frame. So I can't even remember those numbers

Didn't even consider a mexican carport style building.

These are all graded, slab-ready quotes.
 
i may be biased but if i were doing it , metal is the way to go. As far as builders not understanding yes. I can walk into a building framed in metal and tell if a wood guy built it. But there are guys who know their shit up here in the mountains just have to ask the right ones. I dont think thermal loss would be an issue with proper insulation. The sidings not an issue either. Still just ask the right guys. I like working with wood but would not go back to that making a living. I love framing metal.
 
sawdoff said:
i may be biased but if i were doing it , metal is the way to go. As far as builders not understanding yes. I can walk into a building framed in metal and tell if a wood guy built it. But there are guys who know their shit up here in the mountains just have to ask the right ones. I dont think thermal loss would be an issue with proper insulation. The sidings not an issue either. Still just ask the right guys. I like working with wood but would not go back to that making a living. I love framing metal.
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Whatever.
I've seen your work man. 20 million dollar museums? Anyone can do that.
:D
 
sawdoff said:
i may be biased but if i were doing it , metal is the way to go. As far as builders not understanding yes. I can walk into a building framed in metal and tell if a wood guy built it. But there are guys who know their shit up here in the mountains just have to ask the right ones. I dont think thermal loss would be an issue with proper insulation. The sidings not an issue either. Still just ask the right guys. I like working with wood but would not go back to that making a living. I love framing metal.
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Is the cost of metal comparable to wood construction now or at least closer?
 
CasterTroy said:
No banks in the southeast will finance a metal "Morton/Butler style" building for residence. It's not considered "traditional residential construction" and they just won't do it.
If you have a primary traditional home on the same site, and OWN it, you can mortgage that against the building. But they will only loan money against it if it's a business (see also mechanic garage, stables, trailer sales....etc)
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If you have 10 acres or more, check with AgSouth...Im working through some stuff right now with them and they are open to non-traditional construction methods.
They hold paper in house
 
Ron said:
If you have 10 acres or more, check with AgSouth...Im working through some stuff right now with them and they are open to non-traditional construction methods.
They hold paper in house
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I have had the conversation with fidelity bank about borrowing $$ from them to build a shop/house. They didn't seem to have any problem with it. They also hold the deed on it and may just consider it me improving their land .IDK.
 
CasterTroy said:
No banks in the southeast will finance a metal "Morton/Butler style" building for residence. It's not considered "traditional residential construction" and they just won't do it.
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It's also because they fall down. A lot.
 
shawn said:
It's also because they fall down. A lot.
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It's a "mother-n-law" suite. I usually think about 4 steps ahead of where everyone is looking.
 
sawdoff said:
i may be biased but if i were doing it , metal is the way to go. As far as builders not understanding yes. I can walk into a building framed in metal and tell if a wood guy built it. But there are guys who know their shit up here in the mountains just have to ask the right ones. I dont think thermal loss would be an issue with proper insulation. The sidings not an issue either. Still just ask the right guys. I like working with wood but would not go back to that making a living. I love framing metal.
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Metal framing is how I make a living, walls are straighter and can go higher to a degree. We frame interior walls 30'-38' all the time with a single stud. But as it was stated above metal is primarily commercial and not many house builders know how to frame with metal. Commercial crews are paid more than most residential. Hell a lot of PE's don't understand metal. I've seen a ton of over engineered stuff, and that is part of the problem with metal vs wood. There is a standard that most understand or know what wood will span or loads it will carry. Metal takes more thought and requires a qualified engineer. Unless you already have commercial construction resources and can do it your self, subbing out wood built will be cheaper.
 
No fries said:
Metal framing is how I make a living, walls are straighter and can go higher to a degree. We frame interior walls 30'-38' all the time with a single stud. But as it was stated above metal is primarily commercial and not many house builders know how to frame with metal. Commercial crews are paid more than most residential. Hell a lot of PE's don't understand metal. I've seen a ton of over engineered stuff, and that is part of the problem with metal vs wood. There is a standard that most understand or know what wood will span or loads it will carry. Metal takes more thought and requires a qualified engineer. Unless you already have commercial construction resources and can do it your self, subbing out wood built will be cheaper.
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Who do you work for?
 
Ive reached out for current pricing to give a better idea of material costs. The prices i was quoted seem low considering the gauge i requested. I will follow up. I dont think framing material costs would be that much when you consider the benefits but i think electrical and plumbing would be where the costs of metal come into play. Those two will charge more for their services especially if strictly residental.
 
White and SYP lumber is at a pretty low price point now compared to the same time last year. Panel products are lower also.
With new home construction slowing down around NC and SC, I think we'll see prices stay stagnant until the mills slow production
 
FWIW I just bid a light gauge structural stud building with light gauge trusses at roughly $60/sqft for that package. Price included studs, trusses, GWB, insulation
 
sawdoff said:
Ive reached out for current pricing to give a better idea of material costs. The prices i was quoted seem low considering the gauge i requested. I will follow up. I dont think framing material costs would be that much when you consider the benefits but i think electrical and plumbing would be where the costs of metal come into play. Those two will charge more for their services especially if strictly residental.
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From what I have read, the outer wall studs are stronger and heavier than partition studs. The design in the OP as an example, using 12’ studs on the side walls, would the loft be able to be directly attached to those studs or would some kind of additional steel of some kind (like hidden posts?) be required?

Steel studs do not seem to be all that different in cost from SYP lumber but I guess the actual labor is more. I wish there were more companies around here who specialize in this stuff.

If I could get in dried in and the outside completed, I could handle wiring and plumbing and all inside stuff (I’d hire out drywall because I hate it).
 
ponykilr said:
From what I have read, the outer wall studs are stronger and heavier than partition studs. The design in the OP as an example, using 12’ studs on the side walls, would the loft be able to be directly attached to those studs or would some kind of additional steel of some kind (like hidden posts?) be required?

Steel studs do not seem to be all that different in cost from SYP lumber but I guess the actual labor is more. I wish there were more companies around here who specialize in this stuff.

If I could get in dried in and the outside completed, I could handle wiring and plumbing and all inside stuff (I’d hire out drywall because I hate it).
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Structural studs (362 S 162-54, etc) vs interior framing studs (362 PDS 125-18, etc). Interior framing studs are not load-bearing, they're sized according to vertical span, bracing, and allowable deflection.

Metal framing would require armored electrical feeders (hard pipe or BX), metal boxes, etc. Electrical costs make up a big chunk of the cost delta.

Conceptually, the framing is very similar, but there are potential issues (seating studs properly in tracks, etc) that can trip up framers that are unfamiliar with it.

Cold-formed metal framed walls will be straighter than a comparable wood wall, they're non-combustible, and they don't feed bugs, but it's going to cost more. There are things you can do with metal that you can't do with wood, but you're looking at edge cases. They're largely interchangeable.
 
shawn said:
Structural studs (362 S 162-54, etc) vs interior framing studs (362 PDS 125-18, etc). Interior framing studs are not load-bearing, they're sized according to vertical span, bracing, and allowable deflection.

Metal framing would require armored electrical feeders (hard pipe or BX), metal boxes, etc. Electrical costs make up a big chunk of the cost delta.

Conceptually, the framing is very similar, but there are potential issues (seating studs properly in tracks, etc) that can trip up framers that are unfamiliar with it.

Cold-formed metal framed walls will be straighter than a comparable wood wall, they're non-combustible, and they don't feed bugs, but it's going to cost more. There are things you can do with metal that you can't do with wood, but you're looking at edge cases. They're largely interchangeable.
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Where'd you copy/paste that from?
 
My dad used to sell steel framed houses back in the 80's

He always said those type houses would out live us and if fire happened in the house then it can be easily rebuilt at a cheaper cost then wood ever would be
 
LOL
if you are asking questions like this you definitely need someone who Knows what they are doing. Structural studs can be a host of different sizes and gauges. From structural 20ga to 12ga, 2-1/2", 3-5/8",4",6"8",10" and 12" occasionally 14" but then it is actually cheaper to use red iron. They also can have different flanges on the typical structural will have 1-5/8 flanges but you can get 2" 2-1/2" and even 3" these are generally used for headers and jamb studs. The size and gauge is determined on the span, and the finish material. Brick needs a "stiffer" wall so the mortar doesn't crack and EIFS is more forgiving, metal panels even more so but then you start getting into the interior walls. I've been in the industry over 15yrs and still have to call my engineer for some stuff before I price it. Look up WWW.SSMA.com they have a book that give all the properties and spans with deflection rates. Also manufactures have same/similar information on their websites. Clark Dietrich, and Marino Ware are two that are prevalent in this area. If you need help PM me. but until you have some sketches or drawings it may be difficult to price anything. Finding someone I would trust is going to be the biggest problem. Metal framing is really a commercial "trade" having a house built is different. You will need an engineer who has experience with metal studs or you could wind up paying double in material, as I said many OVER engineer them because of lack of experience.

Again if you are serious PM me, I'll talk to you about options.
 
One more thing that may help,
We never provide price per SF of the building when pricing to General contractors. Depending on the location and the make up of the wall, framing, insulation, sheathing, and interior drywall maybe around $12/SF for an exterior wall. That does not include the metal panels on the exterior. It could be plus or minus several dollars depending on many things. So for a basic cost you could look at a 50x50 16' eves square building. 3,200 SF of exterior wall, $38,400.00. these are very rough numbers as tons of things can change the cost. Metal is a commodity and it fluctuates like wood and drywall. Pricing on metal studs is good for a few months. Again these are commercial prices and not house builders. Not to deter you but I'd probably build a house out of wood.
 
I wouldnt consider a 362s for exterior walls. For the added r value, 600s would be my opinion. Depending on load i dont know that the -54 (16 ga) is a requirement. I have framed a lot of exterior walls with -43 (18 ga). I have framed jobs with a mix of the two depending on several factors.

ponykilr said:
From what I have read, the outer wall studs are stronger and heavier than partition studs. The design in the OP as an example, using 12’ studs on the side walls, would the loft be able to be directly attached to those studs or would some kind of additional steel of some kind (like hidden posts?) be required?

Steel studs do not seem to be all that different in cost from SYP lumber but I guess the actual labor is more. I wish there were more companies around here who specialize in this stuff

If I could get in dried in and the outside completed, I could handle wiring and plumbing and all inside stuff (I’d hire out drywall because I hate it).
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Im assuming that the section with the loft was built to 12ft, then a floor system rested on that.? Think of a floor system on a foundation then build another wall. No different. Then no extra steel (assuming youre referring to red iron) is required. Depending on location, bearing loads, wind loads, etc im sure there would be requird bracing in your exterior walls. This could be as simple as cold roll inserted in the holes of the studs at 4 foot on center or could require flat straps on each side of a section of wall (if considered a sheer wall). An engineer may also require anchor boots. But most of this is the same basic principles as wood framing just different products.

Hell its just construction, have you seen the guys that do it?
 
sawdoff said:
I wouldnt consider a 362s for exterior walls. For the added r value, 600s would be my opinion. Depending on load i dont know that the -54 (16 ga) is a requirement. I have framed a lot of exterior walls with -43 (18 ga). I have framed jobs with a mix of the two depending on several factors.
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If he's going to span 16ft vertically, he's probably going to need a 600 or 800 just for the span. But batts make me uncomfortable in this situation because of thermal bridging and condensation in the wall cavity.
 
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