World Population

we won ww2 with 150 million people.
Oh the irony...

We won WW2 thanks to atomic technology that was developed almost entirely by....IMMIGRANT SCIENTISTS.

You cant make this shit up and you cant fix stupid.
 
Oh the irony...

We won WW2 thanks to atomic technology that was developed almost entirely by....IMMIGRANT SCIENTISTS.

You cant make this shit up and you cant fix stupid.
We also have a WAAAAAY better quality of life today, if somebody thinks that was a better time then you're welcome to revert everything in your life to 40s tech for awhile.
 
Oh the irony...

We won WW2 thanks to atomic technology that was developed almost entirely by....IMMIGRANT SCIENTISTS.

You cant make this shit up and you cant fix stupid.

Thanks for proving my point. SCIENTISTS. We went out and got who we needed or let them in to fill a need. No more, no less.

Not millions of unskilled, desititue, uneducated people just cause the current prez is trying to outstupid the last prez. How does that benefit any society or country, especially now?
 
We also have a WAAAAAY better quality of life today, if somebody thinks that was a better time then you're welcome to revert everything in your life to 40s tech for awhile.

That can be a relative thing. It depends on what you want and consider 'quality'

Sure, we have better medicine and cars and more plasitic and crowded parks and urban sprawl and less wildlife and cell phones and Twitter and online dating and E-cigs

Could we get to the same point in 70 years with 100 million less people in the US, a billon less in the world?
Probably.
 
That can be a relative thing. It depends on what you want and consider 'quality'

Sure, we have better medicine and cars and more plasitic and crowded parks and urban sprawl and less wildlife and cell phones and Twitter and online dating and E-cigs

Could we get to the same point in 70 years with 100 million less people in the US, a billon less in the world?
Probably.
So move.
Or are you somehow better and entitled to more than another man just because of where you fell out of the hole?

What an entitled opinion
 
Could we get to the same point in 70 years with 100 million less people in the US, a billon less in the world?
Probably.
Absifuckinglutely not.
It's clear you do not understand what impact new people have on our economy.
Can you name a single capitalist country that has had a long term static population and a booming economy and/or tech innovation?
 
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Oh the irony...

We won WW2 thanks to atomic technology that was developed almost entirely by....IMMIGRANT SCIENTISTS.

You cant make this shit up and you cant fix stupid.

True they were immigrants, BUT all except one - Klaus Fuchs - became American citizens. That's the point. America LOVES immigrants that come in the right way and become citizens. Streaming over the border unchecked - not so much.
 
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True they were immigrants, BUT all except one - Klaus Fuchs - became American citizens. That's the point. America LOVES immigrants that come in the right way and become citizens. Streaming over the border unchecked - not so much.
In those days it didn’t take 8 years and cost over $20,000.

I’m definitely in favor or forcing them to do it right, but also in reforming the process to make that reasonable
 
In those days it didn’t take 8 years and cost over $20,000.

I’m definitely in favor or forcing them to do it right, but also in reforming the process to make that reasonable

Where are you reading that it costs $20,000? Up until 2020, the cost was $725 and you could even apply for a waiver if you have financial hardship (less than 150% of poverty rate). I believe the current rate is around $1200. No where near $20,000.

Here is a link to the fees: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/forms/g-1055.pdf N-400 is the form to apply for naturalization. It is a lengthy process, but anything worthwhile is. If all you are looking for is asylum, that form is even free to submit.

The thing is, citizenship needs to be worth it. Seems like the .gov is doing everything in their power to make it not worth the bother. A good friend of mine is now in Clarkston, GA helping refugees get through their path to citizenship. In Clarkston, GA, there are over 700 ethnicities that are represented in 1 square mile. Most are refugees of various wars and conflicts.
 
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America LOVES immigrants that come in the right way and become citizens.
But not @benXJ aparently, because they still add to the population (and are the VAST majority of immigrants).
 
Where are you reading that it costs $20,000? Up until 2020, the cost was $725 and you could even apply for a waiver if you have financial hardship (less than 150% of poverty rate). I believe the current rate is around $1200. No where near $20,000.

Here is a link to the fees: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/forms/g-1055.pdf N-400 is the form to apply for naturalization. It is a lengthy process, but anything worthwhile is. If all you are looking for is asylum, that form is even free to submit.

The thing is, citizenship needs to be worth it. Seems like the .gov is doing everything in their power to make it not worth the bother. A good friend of mine is now in Clarkston, GA helping refugees get through their path to citizenship. In Clarkston, GA, there are over 700 ethnicities that are represented in 1 square mile. Most are refugees of various wars and conflicts.
In theory yea.
Now go find someone whose done it in person.
Without a lawyer you aren’t getting approved and if rejected you are detained.
 
In theory yea.
Now go find someone whose done it in person.
Without a lawyer you aren’t getting approved and if rejected you are detained.

IIRC it wasn't long ago @Bebop commented about the cost of immigrating to the US. Maybe he'll chime in.

Duane
 
Where are you reading that it costs $20,000? Up until 2020, the cost was $725 and you could even apply for a waiver if you have financial hardship (less than 150% of poverty rate). I believe the current rate is around $1200. No where near $20,000.

Here is a link to the fees: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/forms/g-1055.pdf N-400 is the form to apply for naturalization. It is a lengthy process, but anything worthwhile is. If all you are looking for is asylum, that form is even free to submit.

The thing is, citizenship needs to be worth it. Seems like the .gov is doing everything in their power to make it not worth the bother. A good friend of mine is now in Clarkston, GA helping refugees get through their path to citizenship. In Clarkston, GA, there are over 700 ethnicities that are represented in 1 square mile. Most are refugees of various wars and conflicts.
Ron's spot on about the cost. A guy I work with just became a citizen. He came here as a child illegally with his family. It took him 15 years to become a citizen from the time he started trying including having to leave the US for a year and coming back in legally with a visa.

I 100% think there would be a whole lot more legal immigrants If the process itself was easier and cheaper. Most of the people are good people trying to make a better life for themselves or their kids. I won't fault them for that.
 
Ron's spot on about the cost. A guy I work with just became a citizen. He came here as a child illegally with his family. It took him 15 years to become a citizen from the time he started trying including having to leave the US for a year and coming back in legally with a visa.

I 100% think there would be a whole lot more legal immigrants If the process itself was easier and cheaper. Most of the people are good people trying to make a better life for themselves or their kids. I won't fault them for that.
I definitely agree that he is paying for the "sins of his father", since he was brought here illegally but is now trying to do the right thing. But, just as if you decide one year that you just aren't going to pay taxes - let's say a friend convinces you that you are a "sovereign citizen" and as such you are not required to pay taxes. You get away with it for a couple years because it's a pretty minor infraction, so you keep on doing it. Eventually, you go to buy a house and they want to see your tax returns. All the sudden you are on the hook for 10 years worth of income taxes and the IRS wants their money now. Happened to my former brother-in-law. He was a dumb-ass and it ended up tanking my sister's credit as a result. Long, expensive process to get through, but it's finally over (as well as their marriage)

I do feel bad for your co-worker, but I applaud him for trying to right the situation for himself and his kids. He stopped the cycle of illegal immigration for his family and now his kids, and his kid's kids, etc. will be legitimate citizens of the U.S.
 
In those days it didn’t take 8 years and cost over $20,000.

I’m definitely in favor or forcing them to do it right, but also in reforming the process to make that reasonable

I'm tired of hearing 'the system is broken' and 'reform the process'

The only thing that is broken is that the millions streaming over the border strains the system and makes it more costly and difficult and longer for the legit 'doing it the right way' immigrants to get their paperwork. This is being done on purpose. Nothing is broken.
Close the border holes and take away the incentives and illegal crossings will all but stop. We have the manpower, tech, and money.
Why is this not done?
 
But not @benXJ aparently, because they still add to the population (and are the VAST majority of immigrants).

I find it odd that so many jump so fast to conclusions and assumptions.

Legal immigration to fill needs, at a reasonable assimilation rate, is legit and warranted. No where did I say static, or decreasing population was the answer. Duh.
Gangs, drugs, guns, homeless, crap living conditions, lower property values, strained first responders, wage deflation, heck even the occasional terrorists are things we need to get a handle on NOW and can do easily....by stopping the flow of millions of poor, destitute, uneducated burdens.
 
I find it odd that so many jump so fast to conclusions and assumptions.

Legal immigration to fill needs, at a reasonable assimilation rate, is legit and warranted. No where did I say static, or decreasing population was the answer. Duh.
Gangs, drugs, guns, homeless, crap living conditions, lower property values, strained first responders, wage deflation, heck even the occasional terrorists are things we need to get a handle on NOW and can do easily....by stopping the flow of millions of poor, destitute, uneducated burdens.
you said what was wrong with the population we had 70 years ago. In order to still have that today, we'd have to have - wait for it - static population.

And literally everything you are assuming about immigrants, crime, their mean income level, education, and contribution to society is wrong based on the actual facts.
 
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I'm tired of hearing 'the system is broken' and 'reform the process'

The only thing that is broken is that the millions streaming over the border strains the system and makes it more costly and difficult and longer for the legit 'doing it the right way' immigrants to get their paperwork. This is being done on purpose. Nothing is broken.
Close the border holes and take away the incentives and illegal crossings will all but stop. We have the manpower, tech, and money.
Why is this not done?
Ahh... the infamous malicious compliance defense.

I am sick and tired of how hard it is to fly, said the eagle to lion. If you really wanted to fly youd be up here with me.
 
I find it odd that so many jump so fast to conclusions and assumptions.

Legal immigration to fill needs, at a reasonable assimilation rate, is legit and warranted. No where did I say static, or decreasing population was the answer. Duh.
Gangs, drugs, guns, homeless, crap living conditions, lower property values, strained first responders, wage deflation, heck even the occasional terrorists are things we need to get a handle on NOW and can do easily....by stopping the flow of millions of poor, destitute, uneducated burdens.
If you care at all about having an education insight into this and not continuing to perpetuate lies, I suggest you read through here. It's a pretty good comprehensive review of all the relevant stats related to immigrants, legal and illegal, and how they relate to everything you keep mentioning

To cover some of your claims:
[quoet]
In 2019, 33 percent (12.9 million) of the 39.5 million immigrants ages 25 and older had a bachelor’s degree or higher, similar to U.S.-born adults (see Figure 3). However, newer arrivals tend to be better educated; 48 percent of immigrants who entered the country between 2014 and 2019 held at least a bachelor’s degree.[/quote]
Immigrants tend to have slightly lower incomes than the native born. Immigrant households in 2019 had a median income of $63,550, compared to $66,040 for native-born households.

Fourteen percent of immigrants were poor (that is, with family incomes below the official poverty threshold of $25,750 for a family of four in 2019), compared to 12 percent of the U.S. born.
So they are equally educated and have only slightly lower mean income compared to the native born.

The biggest difference is in health insurance, but even that isn't massive
Approximately 58 percent of U.S. immigrants had private health insurance in 2019 (compared to 69 percent of the U.S. born), and 30 percent had public health insurance coverage (compared to 36 percent of the U.S. born). Meanwhile, about 20 percent lacked health insurance (compared to slightly less than 8 percent of the U.S. born).

Since implementation of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) in 2014, health insurance coverage rates have improved for both the U.S. born and immigrants. From 2013 to 2017, the rate of uninsured immigrants fell from 32 percent to 20 percent, and the rate for the native born fell from 12 percent to 7 percent. The Trump administration made a number of changes to ACA policies, including eliminating the individual coverage mandate penalty, ending cost-sharing subsidies to insurers, and cutting funding for navigator programs. The rates of those uninsured has since remained mostly level.

So all in all, immigrants come in with the same education (or better), make slightly less money, and are a little less likely to have private health insurance,

But what about crime? Well there is zero evidence that legal immigrants have a crime rate any different from native born, and statistically, illegal immigrants - which is what I'm sure you are referring to, are FAR less likely to prevent crime than the native citizens. This has been proven over and over again.

So explain to me what the problem is here. We let people into the country that come in and work, make money, and commit fewer crimes. The per capita crime rate would actually go UP if we stopped.
Is it that we let soooo many people in? Well what does the stats say about how many we actually allow and how many actually come in?
Well that doc explains it all also. Here are some highlights because its too much to quote for you.
- less than a million green cards granted per year
- 2.8mil nonimigrant visas (temporary stay)
- Refugee/asylum was 18k in FY20, and only ~12k actually resettled here in FY21. Despite what you hear, the number granted asylum is very, very small.
- 75% of refugees identify as Christian subtypes
- estimated about 11mil illegal immigrants total in the country (remember - they don't stay, a large % that come in also go home) and has been stable for several years - meaning the number of illegals is not going up
- historically around 100k-200k are deported annually
- only a small % of all immigrants are here illegally

wait but those ilegals must be jobless bums right? Actually, no. The vast majority are employed in some fashion, and are cricial to our economy already.
In fact, a higher % of illegal immigrants are employed than everyone else. They actually contribute MORE.

Where is this poor destitute burden you speak of? Its not coming across the border.
 
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I'm tired of hearing 'the system is broken' and 'reform the process'

The only thing that is broken is that the millions streaming over the border strains the system and makes it more costly and difficult and longer for the legit 'doing it the right way' immigrants to get their paperwork. This is being done on purpose. Nothing is broken.
Close the border holes and take away the incentives and illegal crossings will all but stop. We have the manpower, tech, and money.
Why is this not done?
what percent of nondocumented / illegal people sneak in across the border vs overstay a visa?
I'll wait for you to find out and tell everyone.
 
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but seriously this is the real problem
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what percent of nondocumented / illegal people sneak in across the border vs overstay a visa?
I'll wait for you to find out and tell everyone.


That's the problem. If they are undocumented/illegal you will never have any statistics on them until they are either arrested, or until they do something to be documented. That's literally an impossible ask.
 
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