VT shooting

[MR. GADGET]

We staunch advocates of the 2nd amendment have got to be reasonable with our response or we will be relegated to the fanatic fringe. I don't think the arguement for concealed carry on campus is going to work in this case.

As much as I 'm for the 2nd Amendment and pro gun I don't want to say anything about the shooting now its just a bad thing, but to what you said

Imagine the difficulty the cops would have identifying the perp if there was 5 guys that carried running around looking for the shooter. You might actually get yourself killed by a cop.

Anyone that has had the class knows that we are not and do not play cops we can not replace any part of SWAT or local police and should not try.
From what I know, do not go looking for the problem or problems that will get you killed do what you need to do the save your life and those with you or around you and get away, it is not your job to go looking for the person that has caused it and do not keep your gun in the open the person (gunner) or the cops may shoot you. You have it for CC and keep it that way not in the open if you see a cop hands up and let them know you have a CC and DO WHAT THEY SAY.
Jon

 

[cburgin]

As much as I 'm for the 2nd Amendment and pro gun I don't want to say anything about the shooting now its just a bad thing, but to what you said
Anyone that has had the class knows that we are not and do not play cops we can not replace any part of SWAT or local police and should not try.
From what I know, do not go looking for the problem or problems that will get you killed do what you need to do the save your life and those with you or around you and get away, it is not your job to go looking for the person that has caused it and do not keep your gun in the open the person (gunner) or the cops may shoot you. You have it for CC and keep it that way not in the open if you see a cop hands up and let them know you have a CC and DO WHAT THEY SAY.
Jon

Very well put. I have the right to protect myself. Do i agree with guns on campus? NO, I dont. I have had my CCW for almost 4 years i believe. In the state of NC statics show that around 70,000 have CCW licenses. Out of those, there has not been one single issue that has put CCW persons liable in an act of wrong doing. I think its a good program when respected and used for its original intent. i must add that this was a research project i did a few years ago, therefore, things have changed im sure.

However, and some may get pissed about this but here goes. What the guy did was very wrong and there is no excuss for it. However, people in the media continue to call the kid a loser, freak, a nobody and other such things. Do you not think that this is the talk that continued to drive him do things like this in the first place? or that maybe no one ever spoke to him at all?? i am NOT blaming anyone!!!!!! If it were my friends or my family i would have been destroyed. I must still ask, what if someone would have just said hey to him or reached out to him in some way. Im not trying to save the world or say that no one ever did this and i would have probly been just as guilty, all i am saying is: those kids did not deserve that. Thier free will as americans was stripped and there is no excuse for that. I think , as americans, we should take more time to respect one another and reach out as much as we can. Something has to change within us and as a society to make the world a better place. Im sure i will get bashed for this and that is fine. I say again....he was very wrong and there are not words to describe what he did. I am so sorry for the families, friends and the school. however, something has got to give. The media is making these kids live this over and over again and that in its self is wrong. This is happening far to often and one day it could be my family, your family or maybe it already has been. I hope all of you in this day tell the ones close to you how much they mean to you. We are not promised another day on this earth and i do speak this from an experience that almost took my life less than five years ago. So, live fully in the days you have been given. So, I LOVE ALL YOU GUYS AND GALS! chad.

and no, I am no hippie tree hugger, I just care about the people close to me as im sure you care about yours. I think the world is already hard enough. To survive each day is an amazing task, and for life to be taken so easily is just heartbreaking! enough said.

 

[Banned User]

The article CAS22 quotes are from:

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

Wonder if they will be reconsidering now?

thank you, i was trying to find it again to post the link but the quote was written down from a diffrent computer-i hope they do reconsider, probably not though

 

[Rich]

Anyone else notice the dates are getting eery...

Columbine - 4/20
Waco - 4/19
Oklahoma City - 4/19
VT - 4-16
Embassy bombing in Beirut - 4/18

Weeeeeeiiiiirrrdddd

 

[Banned User]

We staunch advocates of the 2nd amendment have got to be reasonable with our response or we will be relegated to the fanatic fringe. I don't think the arguement for concealed carry on campus is going to work in this case. Imagine the difficulty the cops would have identifying the perp if there was 5 guys that carried running around looking for the shooter. You might actually get yourself killed by a cop. However , I'm pretty confident that there weren't too many that would have carried anyway. Nobody in the barracaded classroom identified the oppurtunity to jump the guy when he dropped a clip to reload.

thats why you dont run around looking...that is trying to be a hero, your not trying to be a hero, your just defending from him comming to you and people with you. also, a magazine change takes MAYBE 3 seconds if your slow. jumping him? no, a well aimed, controlled pair from your own pistol? very feasable

 

[Banned User]

So chances are not great that anyone there even WOULD have had a gun. If they had, then what? You fire off a round, he splits...

...This is the danger of letting just anybody carry guns around wheret here are lots of other people. imagine the haos if an uncontroleld firefight breaks out. How many MORE people could get killed.

Even if no one does have one, The gunman doesnt know that. If im gonna try to kill alot of people, i'll go anywhere other than a place where they are allowed to have guns. As soon as you make a no weapons law, you know that that is an easy target. i would rather take my chances trying to take out an unarmed class and MAYBE the one security guard nearby on campus, than to try to take out a group where anyone of them could be a properly trained, concealed carry issued citizen

which brings me to my next point where you said the danger of letting anyone have a gun...thats exactly why they dont let everyone have one. you have to have a clean criminal backround and you have to take classes and training on how to properly respond to situations. i dont know all the details because im not 21 yet but its not just like gettin a drivers license...anyone can do that.

i do know that the sheer fact that you were talking about going rambo after the guy down the halls would make you inelligible (sp?) in my eyes. the point is to defend yourself and potential victims, NOT to make sure the gunman dies. if he does, good, but you dont go chasing him trying. if he runs, let him run, and call police. your still alive, keep it that way.
that is why they have the classes they have. you cannot get a concealed carry permit without being taught how to use your new responsibility.

my point is that yes tradgedies will still happen, but at least give the one properly trained student that may be there, a chance to stop it before it becomes a 32 victim tradgedy

 

[Stowe]

Here are a few of my thoughts..

I dont think that carrying a weapon was on most of thier minds... VT is a very competive school and it takes alot to get in and stay in.

And anyone can quote this person or that person.. or blame this person or that person. But this guy followed the letter of the law to get his gun... a 5 day waiting period. I would like to know why a non-citzen person can get a gun.

Lastly.

My theory on the 2 murders then 2 hours and the rampage. My criminal master mind says draw the attention away from where you are going to commit a crime, by commiting a smaller crime a distance away. This guy probably had a systemmatic way he wanted to get this done. Remeber he is not some thug that dropped out in the 6th grade.

- my twisted $.02

 

[kilby]

But this guy followed the letter of the law to get his gun... a 5 day waiting period. I would like to know why a non-citzen person can get a gun.

He was a legal citizen.

 

[trailhugger]

No, he was not a citizen... a resident alien with a green card... that's all it takes.

 

[kilby]

No, he was not a citizen... a resident alien with a green card... that's all it takes.

Paying attention while reading is good. He retained S. Korean citizenship.

 

[RatLabGuy]

Im sorry but I disagree with you... if CC was allowed on campus then the chances are much greater that someone would have stopped him. I've had class with former military, active reserve, etc.... chances are good that someone in that building would know what to do and react.

Heehee I knew I'd get jumped on. Stir, pot, stir.

I'm going to stand by my claim, however. Lests see... for the sake of discussion, I'd say VA and NC are fairly similar in population and gun culture. cburgin has clearly doen some homework on this, I'll trust his number of 70,000 people w/ CC permits. That is indeed a lot.
Now, lets see - NC has a population of ~8 million people. That is < 1% of the population of NC w/ CC permits. On top of that, college campuses/classrooms are populated mostly with people between 18 and 23 - > 1/2 of whom don't even qualify for CC.
So out of the, what, 100 people(?) that this fellow encountered, 1 *might* have had CC.
Of course some of you wil lsay, "well it only takes 1 person to plug his ass/run him off to save the rest." Yes, that's true. But also highly speculative. I could just as easily say, "it'd only take 1 person to have given him a smile and a free beer the night before, and that would have avoided it too." Here ya go

Now I am NOT rallying against CCW, I am a FIRM believer in the idea... just the claims that it would have prevented this or clealy scailed it down.
I absolutely agree that knowing that a CCW person might be in "the crowd" would seriously hinder my consideration of walking into a place like this and opening fire. But, oh, wait, the FIRST thing to hinder me would be, lets see, my SANITY. You can not expect this same logic to apply to Homeboy Cho. Clearly he was not firing on all cylinders, so why would you expect him to be hindered by the potential of danger?
I am not saying that the CCW idea does not apply to most/all violent crimes in public places. Only that I really doubt that it would have made any difference in this case.

 

[Rich]

I'll say it again.. an armed society is a polite one.

Not saying it would have prevented it for sure, but it is possible that it could have, which is better than the actual outcome. Anything is better than nothing.

 

[jeepinmatt]

Guns stop gun crimes better than gun laws. Laws are only for those who will obey them.

I feel like the situation at VT could have been lessened simply with physical action. I have really thought about this alot the past couple of days. A gunman can come into a room and shoot or kill 2 or 3 people before anyone can do anything. He can kill maybe 5 or 6 before people have time to react, but by the time he is past about the 3rd person, it is clear that he isn't there to kill a particular person. At that point, I feel that if I were in the room, I would attack him with all that I had. If it got me shot and killed, well, so be it. I cannot imagine waiting to be killed, and not fighting back. Assuming there were 20 people in the room, 5 shot, 15 left, if 1 person goes for him, at least 3 or 4 more will, and then momentum is on their side. He could not shoot 5 people well in the time it would take them to get to him.

My biggest concern at the outcome of this tragedy is that there will be a pointless rampant slew of anti-gun legislation that has absolutely no effect on criminals (criminal-one who breaks the law).

 

[shawn]

Now I am NOT rallying against CCW... just the claims that it would have prevented this or clealy scailed it down.

In February of 2007, a young man carried a handgun into the Trolley Square shopping center in Ogden, UT and began shooting shoppers. He killed 5 before an off-duty officer (carrying his sidearm concealed despite mall policy prohibiting firearms) engaged and subdued him.

At the Appalachian Law School in Grundy, VA in January 2002, two professors and a student were killed before the gunman was confronted by two students, one of whom had retrieved his own gun from his vehicle when he heard gunfire.

In October 1997, a high school student in Pearl, MS, shot and killed his ex-girlfriend and another student before the vice principal retrieved his handgun from his vehicle and subdued the shooter.

And I haven't even put any effort into this. "Gun Free" zones only ensure that innocent civilians will be unable to defend themselves.

 

[cburgin]

In February of 2007, a young man carried a handgun into the Trolley Square shopping center in Ogden, UT and began shooting shoppers. He killed 5 before an off-duty officer (carrying his sidearm concealed despite mall policy prohibiting firearms) engaged and subdued him.
At the Appalachian Law School in Grundy, VA in January 2002, two professors and a student were killed before the gunman was confronted by two students, one of whom had retrieved his own gun from his vehicle when he heard gunfire.
In October 1997, a high school student in Pearl, MS, shot and killed his ex-girlfriend and another student before the vice principal retrieved his handgun from his vehicle and subdued the shooter.
And I haven't even put any effort into this. "Gun Free" zones only ensure that innocent civilians will be unable to defend themselves.

once again, well put!

 

[MR. GADGET]

"Gun Free" zones only ensure that innocent civilians will be unable to defend themselves.

Yep just look at the places with the highest crime rate, they outlawed guns.....

 

[cburgin]

http://www.answers.com/topic/rtc-gif

thought this was intresting. if it isnt worth it, the why the huge change in acceptance of the law?

 

[Elliott]

guns don't kill people.

David Bowie kills people.

 

[lomodyj]

No, he was not a citizen... a resident alien with a green card... that's all it takes.

"Legal Perminant Resident"

 

[Rich]

In February of 2007, a young man carried a handgun into the Trolley Square shopping center in Ogden, UT and began shooting shoppers. He killed 5 before an off-duty officer (carrying his sidearm concealed despite mall policy prohibiting firearms) engaged and subdued him.
At the Appalachian Law School in Grundy, VA in January 2002, two professors and a student were killed before the gunman was confronted by two students, one of whom had retrieved his own gun from his vehicle when he heard gunfire.
In October 1997, a high school student in Pearl, MS, shot and killed his ex-girlfriend and another student before the vice principal retrieved his handgun from his vehicle and subdued the shooter.
And I haven't even put any effort into this. "Gun Free" zones only ensure that innocent civilians will be unable to defend themselves.

Well done sir..

 

[cburgin]

In February of 2007, a young man carried a handgun into the Trolley Square shopping center in Ogden, UT and began shooting shoppers. He killed 5 before an off-duty officer (carrying his sidearm concealed despite mall policy prohibiting firearms) engaged and subdued him.
At the Appalachian Law School in Grundy, VA in January 2002, two professors and a student were killed before the gunman was confronted by two students, one of whom had retrieved his own gun from his vehicle when he heard gunfire.
In October 1997, a high school student in Pearl, MS, shot and killed his ex-girlfriend and another student before the vice principal retrieved his handgun from his vehicle and subdued the shooter.
And I haven't even put any effort into this. "Gun Free" zones only ensure that innocent civilians will be unable to defend themselves.

my favorite quote to go along with this is:

"better to be trailed by 12 than be carried by 6"

 

[Rich]

my favorite quote to go along with this is:
"better to be trailed by 12 than be carried by 6"

I believe it's "be judged by 12" or "to stand before 12"

But I agree

 

[Diane]

Unfortunately, in the panic, 2 students are killed by stray bullets.
Still seems like a better outcome, BY FAR.

Very true, but think of it from this angle,

Since hindsight is 20/20 there's no way to know how any lives would be saved by that action.

The newspaper headlines will scream "Two Innocent Lives Lost in Gun Battle On Campus"

Lawmakers would have a field day with that scenario.

 

[Stowe]

I read this all again... and I laugh. Not at the unfortunete events... but at the "...that there will be a pointless rampant slew of anti-gun legislation that has absolutely no effect on criminals (criminal-one who breaks the law)." and the "an armed society is a polite one"

We are under armed... yes... we are...
I can't remember the last time I walked out my door and someone took a shot at me, or blew up a car in town? Thats a good thing.

... and the majority of you guys are saying more guns more guns ... and the other side are saying less guns less guns and calling each other dumbasses...

stop making them and eventually they will all go away. or another idea is make ammo expensive.

 

[lomodyj]

or another idea is make ammo expensive.

Already expensive.