Got mold?

That is some nasty stuff! When I first clicked on Mold I thought it was what most people think is extreme like a few black marks in the attic. Should have just a few gallons of diesel and let it rip!

Of course I say that...those awesome nudies would have been lost so $13k to save Anna Nicole = money well spent! :)

I think the only thing worse has got to be asbestos.
 
here are a few pics from a job we worked on not too long ago. That white fluffy mold typically has veins in it and can transport moisture from the source to edges of the colony where the hyphae are growing and expanding. These images show a good representation of those veins, and the expansion onto the fiberglass insulation off the floor joist.

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I'm not trying to hijack the thread 77greenmachine, just don't see or talk to many people that are in the same line of work as we are. We prefer to stick to crawlspaces, and send some work back and forth with a guy in Fayetteville that also does duct cleaning and mold/environmental disaster remediation. The company I work for started doing closed crawlspaces in 99. I have been working with them part time from 99 until 09, when I went full time from then to now. Cheers!!! :beer:
 
No worries. I don't mind this line of work too much, just hate who I do it for so I'm trying to get out.
There were lots of veins in this stuff today. It took a lot to get them off the block walls, amazing how rooted it was.
I would rather do basements and such any day, I'd like to never go into another crawl space and I'd be content. I got some good guys that work very hard in there but I like to keep them mixed up and not in a crawl space consecutively.
Back in 13' we did a moldy crawlspace for Southern States in Roxboro. The place had termites at one time, then a mold problem for years. It was falling apart. That was over 3 weeks nonstop in a dark moldy crawlspace. I hadn't worked here long at that time and was really wondering why the heck I left my desk job lol.
 
Looks like something from the movie Aliens!

I guess a dehumidifier is your best friend.
 
Oh good lord! AdvantaClean to the rescue!!
 
Mac5005 said:
I'm not trying to hijack the thread 77greenmachine, just don't see or talk to many people that are in the same line of work as we are.
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This makes three of us.
 
I priced the crawl space liner the other day. Ugh.
 
shawn said:
I priced the crawl space liner the other day. Ugh.
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how " Ugh " is it ? I'm probably looking for similar treatment at some point
 
Base 6 mil vapor barrier starts at .40 sq ft. 12 mil all seams taped start at $1.20 sq ft Add for prep work such as debris removal, soil leveling, and drain systems if required. Mold remediation is addition as well as air sealing walls and moisture control equipment
 
Mac5005 said:
Here are a few from a recent job that really kicked my butt. Tons of trash, debris, water, cat poop. We really had to work and keep after it to polish this one.

Before
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After
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That looks like my before and afters, but I will say it's the best improvement I have done to my home so far. Plus its nice that anytime I have to go under the house its all nice and clean

Blkvoodoo said:
how " Ugh " is it ? I'm probably looking for similar treatment at some point
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@Blkvoodoo , I had mine done earlier this year. My house is a lil under 1600 sf. and it was just under 6k. I did have a full encapsulation done though. Its basically another room under my house. They also done a full mold remediation and removed all the debris, a few snakes, and insulation. IMHO it was worth every penny.

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There is no question that a sealed crawl space with a permanent dehumidifier is the nicest crawl space ever and about the absolute best thing you can do to a house.
Not only is is much more efficient, dry, and a nice place to work in, it pretty much eliminates any bugs, ants, spiders, termites, ect. No moisture=no creepy crawlers.
I rarely get to go in one AFTER its been done, but the times I have, its been so nice I could enjoy a cup of coffee in the in shorts in a T shirt.
 
Another thing that many people will claim from a sealed crawlspace is that since the temperature underneath the house is close to same as what it is in the house because of static heat from HVAC, your floors won't be nearly as cold when you get out of bed in the morning. May seems paltry, but most folks don't realize how bad they hate cold floors til they don't have to walk on them anymore.
 
I don't see any reason why most folks would need a dehumidifier, either. Maybe initially to get the RH down (the wood may let go of a substantial amount of water as the surrounding air dries out). After that, consider putting a small amount of conditioned air into the space to generate positive pressure. Think something along the lines of a little 4" duct coming off the main trunk with a damper to control airflow. You're not trying to condition the crawl space to the same level as the house, just introduce some conditioned, dry air to keep any water vapor moving up through the house.

Remember, a dehumidifier is basically just a little space heater.
 
shawn said:
I don't see any reason why most folks would need a dehumidifier, either. Maybe initially to get the RH down (the wood may let go of a substantial amount of water as the surrounding air dries out). After that, consider putting a small amount of conditioned air into the space to generate positive pressure. Think something along the lines of a little 4" duct coming off the main trunk with a damper to control airflow. You're not trying to condition the crawl space to the same level as the house, just introduce some conditioned, dry air to keep any water vapor moving up through the house.

Remember, a dehumidifier is basically just a little space heater.
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Nailed it. An HVAC system is also a dehumidification system. I've seen dehumidifiers work great on initial install but usually after the humidity level is brought down to 55% or below, they really aren't needed as much anymore. When you install a dehu in a crawlspace of about 80% humidity it will run nonstop for days and even weeks. Once it removes the majority of the humid air, it doesn't run but a few minutes a day if the crawlspace is truly sealed and the doors arent' being opened and closed several times a day.
 
Yep. We don't do the sealed crawl space, we always refer PMI. That's how they do it, 4" duct off the main trunk. The dehu is barley in use after a little while. But they also install a monitor in the house that tells you the temp and humidity in the crawl. In the event that the humidity shoots up you know you have a busted pipe or something. The dehu will kick on in a case like this.
 
Personally I don't care for a conditioned crawlspace. I do not like the idea of mixing crawlspace air and house air. I'm curious as to what they are doing for make up air for the loss into the crawlspace.

My .02, I prefer to have the crawlspace in a negative pressure so that any sewer gas from a leak, radon/methane from the ground, as well as the odors from dying/dormant mold that hasn't been physically removed is going to produce and then be mixed with house air.

I would rather have a dehu dedicated for the crawlspace which costs much less to run than the Hvac unit to remove and maintain that moisture.

As well per the code, on larger crawlspaces, ie cubic feet of contained air, if you condition the space, the Hvac unit has to be sized larger. Not only does this cost more upfront, but then the units typically short cycle and do a terrible job of removing any moisture from the air.

They run, change the temperature of the air to meet desired level, and shut off.

The main problem I have with that scenario is the major amp draw of the start up of the compressor when the unit is short cycling. This usually is much less efficient than a smaller sized unit running long enough to change the air temp and remove the moisture.

The code addresses the three types of crawlspace currently allowed.

Again just my .02, a lot more factors need to be accounted for than just allow a 4" supply to the crawlspace with a damper and call it good.

Typically the energy savings of having the space air sealed make up for the energy cost of running the dehumidifier, if it is sized properly.

My last consideration: why would I pay to condition a space that is not lived in? The loss through the duct system insulation once the space is closed is enough to keep the crawl space temp 65-75 degrees year round.

Even on houses without insulating the foundation walls, only air sealing the walls, and it is a closed crawlspace not conditioned, with an outside temp of 28 degrees and snow covered ground, the crawl space temperature remained at 67 degrees.

This house met the new code requirements for air leaks and insulation.
 
77GreenMachine said:
Yep. We don't do the sealed crawl space, we always refer PMI. That's how they do it, 4" duct off the main trunk. The dehu is barley in use after a little while. But they also install a monitor in the house that tells you the temp and humidity in the crawl. In the event that the humidity shoots up you know you have a busted pipe or something. The dehu will kick on in a case like this.
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I wonder what brand they use.
We have tested all the commercially available ones and none seem to be accurate within 10% either with temperature or humidity.
Just a heads up.
 
Another hypothetical I have with a conditioned space:
If you have a major water or moisture intrusion event during the heating season, there are is mechanical means of removing that moisture. Typically the molds associated with crawlspace building materials like the warmer temperatures of the heating season to expand the colony. Potentially with a conditioned space that moisture could remain until the cooling season starts. At this point the dew point may be high enough that no matter how much condensation the Hvac unit can remove, condensation also occurs on all the ducts/registers etc in the crawlspace. Now as then overall temperature drops in the crawlspace that much more energy is required to evaporate that condensation back into vapor and transport it to the Hvac unit and remove it.

All in all, there are various ways to remove and control moisture in the crawlspace. Some houses need all the mold and insulation removed, a reinforced vapor barrier and insulated walls, while others, a 6mil barrier and converting to closed crawlspace is all that is needed.

Although the price is main difference while both will achieve the goal of controlling the crawlspace moisture and preventing new mold growth and wood deterioration.

I think we all can agree there is no such thing as dry rot, and anyone that uses that term shows a lack of intelligence.

While we are kicking the ball around, any of you guys used or seen implemented a permanent whole house hepa filter system?
 
shawn said:
I don't see any reason why most folks would need a dehumidifier, either. Maybe initially to get the RH down (the wood may let go of a substantial amount of water as the surrounding air dries out). After that, consider putting a small amount of conditioned air into the space to generate positive pressure. Think something along the lines of a little 4" duct coming off the main trunk with a damper to control airflow. You're not trying to condition the crawl space to the same level as the house, just introduce some conditioned, dry air to keep any water vapor moving up through the house.

Remember, a dehumidifier is basically just a little space heater.
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I didnt do a dehumidifier either, my HVAC unit is under the house and it dropped the humidity fast. I was told I may need to put a damper in and let more air in but I think my system leaks enough to handle it
 
Had a guy come to my house today to get me a quote so we will see.

but he checked my joists and they were at 16% is that high?

I currently only have plastic down on half the dirt floor and I have terrible water issues that we believe we found the issue and will seal if he does the job.
 
16% is elevated but not high. It takes 23 to grow most molds on wood and more than 27 % to grow the wood deteriorating mold called poria incrassata
 
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