Lawn and Landscape

[drkelly]

If cool season, anything that goes down now will grow, but will probably die in the summer for lack of roots. Regular watering may prevent that. Any pre-emergent put down in the spring will prevent all seeds from germinating (including the grass seed), so keep that in mind as well.
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This is the truth!!!

I am only seeding now out of necessity. I had a bunch of pine trees removed around my septic field over the winter and all the grass was destroyed. I put the seed down EARLY (last Tuesday) to hopefully have some of it survive the summer. I know it will require heavy over seeding this fall.

Last spring I was a complete dumbass and decided to redo the septic field because mowing it felt like riding on the moon with craters everywhere. I brought in some dirt, and reseeded the whole thing. I did it kind of late (mid April I think). The grass came up great, but by late May or early June, we had a spell of 3 weeks with no rain and I was shocked at how much of it died. It wasn't even really hot yet, but just the lack of rain killed it. The septic field is too far from my house to water, so I was screwed.

My dumbass has now totally reseeded this area 3 times in about 12 months. I will probably have to do it a 4th time this fall.

 

[drkelly]

I'm fairly certain @RenegadeT has a pull behind sprayer.

I don't have a pull behind sprayer, but I do own this: WorkHorse Sprayers 15 Gallon Economy Spot Sprayer at Tractor Supply Co.

I put it in my yard cart behind my riding mower for spraying weeds. I've had it 3-4 yrs and it still works well. I always flush it with clean water after use, and drain all the water out of the hose before putting it up.

 

[Atla]

I read the first six pages of this, and I'll have to go back later to finish.

My biggest problem in our backyard is that my dogs apparently piss toxic sludge that makes brown spots. Every year I put new seed down, it sprouts nice and pretty, then the dogs turn it into large brown spots with their acidic urine. (They tend to run about 10 feet off the porch and let it go)

If anyone has a solution other than colostomy bags, I'm all ears.

 

[DSM Turbos]

Depends on whether you want cool season (fescue) or warm season (centipede, zoysia, bermuda,etc) grass. If cool season, anything that goes down now will grow, but will probably die in the summer for lack of roots. Regular watering may prevent that. Any pre-emergent put down in the spring will prevent all seeds from germinating (including the grass seed), so keep that in mind as well.

No pre-emergent or anything down right now. Its fescue seed. Sounds like I might be fucked! Unless it rains like it did this year all summer!

 

[DSM Turbos]

did the utility co. fix the mess they made of the ROW ?

When they ran the gas line? That is honestly the least messed up part of it, but those spots are pretty bare. I have a lot of clovers and stuff in the yard now and some dead spots not from them.

Plus some spots from the RV and dirt bike that I have tore up!

 

[shawn]

No pre-emergent or anything down right now. Its fescue seed. Sounds like I might be fucked!

Meh, you'll have to reseed in the fall regardless. And any grass seed you put down now will compete with weed seeds that blow in, theoretically reducing the amount of weeds that are able to germinate and thrive.

 

[awheelterd]

I am going to be ready to do something at my house in the next month or so. We are far enough along with our build that there are no more trucks that need to drive through the yard after next week. I am in an open field that was very well round up'd and disc'd before we started construction so there is almost nothing growing right now. It drains well, the soil is a sandy loam and is in full sun all day. I don't want green grass in the winter and I don't like to mow more than once a week at most. What do I need to plant? I'm thinking centipede? I understand that the seed is not cheap and my yard will be around 2 acres. Is it as expensive as I have heard?

 

[trailhugger]

I'm comparing the recent soil report to my last one from the fall of 2017. Any help from the experts deciphering it would be appreciated! After ALL the rain and then none, the yard is a real buzzkill right now!

 

[Ron]

Your phosphorous levels are super high. That is going to make any plants and bushes grow slow and flower less. The only real way to lower phosphorous (that Im aware of) is to stop causing it to rise and grow lots of stuff to absorb, fixate and then release it. If you have a small problem area, tomatos absorb the hell out of it. Even a few small tomato plants can do wonders. But if its systemic to the whole yard then maybe not a viable solution....

Are you composting the yard? That is usually what causes P levels that high. Actually in my knowledge that is the only thing, other than a bad test or contaminated sample, that could cause levels that high. If you are composting and spreading regularly back off that. Maybe stop altogether for a while...

If your yard is fescue get the pH up. I am trying to get my farm up to 6.3+...most everything will read 6.0 but a few guys I really trust told have told me 6.3 -6.7 is substantially better for fescue. So we will see. Im using a combo of staggerred dosing of peletized and solucal direct acting.

 

[trailhugger]

I noticed that... on the previous test the P was high in the front yard as well. We're not composting although we did put some compost from yard waste in some low areas but I don't think I sampled any of those.

I'd honestly considered spreading more compost because the soil is really sandy and nothing grows well except in or near where we've added compost to build up the planting beds. We made a new bed area late last fall, with compost and mulch from the City, and it's the only place grass is really growing but of course it's all Bermuda. Maybe it's the mulch keeping the moisture in rather than the compost but, either way, the flowers are growing like gangbusters and we've got pollinators galore.

I've been adding lime but I guess I need to add a shit-ton more... The CEC is up on both, which I think is an improvement although I don't know what's ideal.

Edit: We also have lots of moles.

 

[Ron]

I noticed that... on the previous test the P was high in the front yard as well. We're not composting although we did put some compost from yard waste in some low areas but I don't think I sampled any of those.

I'd honestly considered spreading more compost because the soil is really sandy and nothing grows well except in or near where we've added compost to build up the planting beds. We made a new bed area late last fall, with compost and mulch from the City, and it's the only place grass is really growing but of course it's all Bermuda. Maybe it's the mulch keeping the moisture in rather than the compost but, either way, the flowers are going like gangbusters and we've got pollinators galore.

I've been adding lime but I guess I need to add a shit-ton more... The CEC is up on both, which I think is an improvement although I don't know what's ideal.

our local soil place wont test CEC have to go to Clemson extension for that! From my wayback machine I dont think that can be too high, I also dont know what you can do to dramatically change it. I thought it was more a function of clay/sand composition to be honest

 

[trailhugger]

Too much good info to clip just the CEC bit...

Yes, do the lime as recommended. I expect that Site One recommended Calcitic Lime or fast lime. Your other option is regular dolomitic lime which works slower but in my opinion lasts longer also and will raise your already low Mg. Your soil does need calcium so use the fast lime first to get your pH closer then, use dolomitic for a longer lasting effect.
Next consider using some Gypsum at 15/M a couple of times in the next year and it is always a good addition. It will get your Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC) rate up which you need. CEC is a rate at which the molecules in the soil are able to move about and interact so to speak. It is not a measure of compaction.
One thing that the Lesco tests don't measure is the Humic value, or the amount of organic matter within the soil which is a helpful tool. Organics in the soil add beneficial bacteria and nutrients. You can add organics by using Milorganite, real compost, or some of the organic based ferts on the market, BUT these are hard to add into your pre-em program because being organic, they usually don't add chemicals such as pre-em into them. Many of the Lesco ferts do have an organic component added into them but IMO it's not enough, I like real compost or composted poultry fertilizer. Site One does carry a GREAT organic fert called Sustane, but it ain't cheap!
One last thing and you may think I'm crazy but go buy some red wiggler fishing worms and plant them around a few places in your yard. Yes, dig as hole and put them in it and make sure the soil is moist and don't mash them in. There is nothing that works harder at decompacting your soil and turning organic matter into usable nutrients than the red wiggler worm.
Okay a second last thing, next time you do a soil sample, use NCSU, NCDA&CS Agronomic Division - Soil Test Forms and Information Its free most of the year and gives you a little bit more useful info. It is slow to get back to you so Im glad you used Site One this time around.
Great job on your yard!

 

[shawn]

Also, we've had good luck with mixing dolomitic and fast-acting in a regular push spreader. If you try to spread fast-acting, it just clogs up and makes a mess. I don't have any good ideas on how to spread gypsum.

If we're going to buy red worms, we've got to figure out a better way to kill moles.

 

[R Q]

That's really high on your phosphorous! Stop using starter fert for now and use 17-17-17 or 19-19-19 when reseeding. I'm in a rush so will stop in later

 

[Ron]

interesting...
Cant wait to learn from the expert @R Q I would have guessed a 30-0-10 or 28-0-12 type recomendation...the triple surprises me.

 

[guffey24]

Also, we've had good luck with mixing dolomitic and fast-acting in a regular push spreader. If you try to spread fast-acting, it just clogs up and makes a mess. I don't have any good ideas on how to spread gypsum.

If we're going to buy red worms, we've got to figure out a better way to kill moles.

It’s like anything, some fast acting limes are better than others

We sold solucal for years, they have had some issues so we went straight to the source and are making our own now

The difference in those are the binding agents, and the carboxy acids used to breakdown the calcium which makes it fast acting

 

[guffey24]

If phosphorus levels are high and ph is high

I recommend no phosphorus even at seeding, I would use a 21-0-0 pure ammonium sulfate, sulfates help reduce ph levels, they also help breakdown the micro nutrients that are bound up in the soil, I also recommend using products that have Humic acids attached, Humic acid will help break down micros and make it available to the plant for use

If phosphorus levels are high and ph is low

I recommend no phosphorus at seeding, in this case I stay away from ammonium sulfate type products because we are trying to raise ph, 24-0-5 or anything methylene urea based, once again Humic acid to make nutrients available

Raise ph 1 point in one year with a 36% calcium fast acting lime product you will need 12.5lbs/1000 sqft, that being said, everything you add to your lawn with nitrogen will increase this number

So to actually increase ph 1 full point, add 17.5lbs/1000, do split apps 1 month apart

 

[trailhugger]

If phosphorus levels are high and ph is low

I recommend no phosphorus at seeding, in this case I stay away from ammonium sulfate type products because we are trying to raise ph, 24-0-5 or anything methylene urea based, once again Humic acid to make nutrients available

Raise ph 1 point in one year with a 36% calcium fast acting lime product you will need 12.5lbs/1000 sqft, that being said, everything you add to your lawn with nitrogen will increase this number

So to actually increase ph 1 full point, add 17.5lbs/1000, do split apps 1 month apart

I appreciate the detailed response! I've quoted the portion that applies to us... the soil report recommends 30#/1000, for reference!

So what would you recommend for between now and time to seed fescue in the fall?

Thanks again!

 

[guffey24]

I appreciate the detailed response! I've quoted the portion that applies to us... the soil report recommends 30#/1000, for reference!

So what would you recommend for between now and time to seed fescue in the fall?

Thanks again!

On most cases with fast lime, 1 bag fast lime equals 4 bags of regular lime, so 30lbs per 1000 would be 7lbs/1000 fast lime

But if I wanted to raise PH I would double that, 14lbs/1000 fast lime

 

[R Q]

That's really high on your phosphorous! Stop using starter fert for now and use 17-17-17 or 19-19-19 when reseeding. I'm in a rush so will stop in later

My reasoning for using the 17-17-17 or 19... was because they are not a slow release product and I have ran into this same issue when repeatedly using starter every year for Fall seeding. Guffey definitely has me on the tech side of ferts and chemicals so I will also read and learn! lol
I am surprised at your Phosphorous levels with the input y'all have stated especially with the sandy soil you say you have. I would expect more leaching/quicker dissipation of the nutrients. How sandy are we talking?

 

[guffey24]

My reasoning for using the 17-17-17 or 19... was because they are not a slow release product and I have ran into this same issue when repeatedly using starter every year for Fall seeding. Guffey definitely has me on the tech side of ferts and chemicals so I will also read and learn! lol
I am surprised at your Phosphorous levels with the input y'all have stated especially with the sandy soil you say you have. I would expect more leaching/quicker dissipation of the nutrients. How sandy are we talking?

No such thing as slow release phosphorus

in a slow release fertilizer, only thing slow is the nitrogen

 

[Ron]

@guffey24 do yall get into agricultural fescue applications any?

I need to improve my forage grass. These arent FDA animals, really just my daughters pets if Im honest but I need more/better grazing grass.
Im trying to improve ~20 acres of fescue...have tractor and spreader, would buy a small/mid size sprayer if need be.

 

[trailhugger]

Maybe sandy is the wrong word. It definitely isn't clay and we have a lot of granite and are near the Neuse River. It doesn't hold water.

 

[shawn]

I'd say it's very sandy, but it's not the beach.

 

[Ron]

look up "soil ribbon test"
@trailhugger with a water bottle, 3 toddlers and 15 minutes can get a dar near perfect spectrum analysis of the sand/loam/clay profile...I can link more details later but I bet youtube is full of example