Lots of interesting news today

Cherokeekid88 said:
I have no issue with harsher or more thorough background checks...bring em. I don't know why the left thinks ALL gun owners just want to be able to walk into a store, point, swipe, and leave. and you are right, growing up in a good home doesn't always mean you won't grow up bad, I just think its a fundamental problem that has almost vanished. One of the reasons this whole subject is weighing heavy on me is there is a little boy in my daughters class who constantly gets in trouble. No manners, throws tantrums, acts out, hits the teachers, and my wife and I have talked to her teachers about him and they said that they have mentioned the issues to the parents and they said the parents just shrug it off and can tell that he little boy doesn't have a great home life and its sad. Not saying that he is going to end up being another Ramos, but what if?
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It's not all, that's for sure. Well, I think if you put a poll on this board, the majority of them wouldn't be in favor of more thorough background checks. I may be wrong.
 
Cherokeekid88 said:
there is a little boy in my daughters class who constantly gets in trouble. No manners, throws tantrums, acts out, hits the teachers, and my wife and I have talked to her teachers about him and they said that they have mentioned the issues to the parents and they said the parents just shrug it off
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justjeepin86 said:
It's not all, that's for sure. Well, I think if you put a poll on this board, the majority of them wouldn't be in favor of more thorough background checks. I may be wrong.
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These two statements are linked.

I do not see more laws "solving" or having a significant impact on the problem because we will not recognize and take action on issues we already see in front of us.

As long as we (as a society) move away from accountability, we cannot address the real issue. Frankly, I don't see the benefit of tightening down controls and making extensive checklists for gun ownership if we can't do the most basic of things like discipline a small child in a classroom.

Enforce laws, teach students (and parents) that discipline matters. The tool used to cause pain and destruction isn't the problem. I know the counter argument about minimizing a bad person's capability to inflict damage by removing the tool. But if you go down that road, you force good people to live in a prison and you'll still have the root problem.
 
If Biden had grandchildren at that school this wouldn't have happened
Our politicians all have an armed army surrounding them, why should our kids not have that benefit?
That $53 Billion sent to Ukraine could have been used to provide more law enforcement at schools.
 
CasterTroy said:
If Biden had grandchildren at that school this wouldn't have happened
Our politicians all have an armed army surrounding them, why should our kids not have that benefit?
That $53 Billion sent to Ukraine could have been used to provide more law enforcement at schools.
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Because they shouldn't have to......
 
RatLabGuy said:
Does it come with the accelerated rust function? That would really make it retro.
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Did you read the article? Said it comes with a spare frame to swap out at a later date.
 
jeepinmatt said:
Did you read the article? Said it comes with a spare frame to swap out at a later date.
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Hey dickhead, that was a Tacoma thing. Yeesh.
Don't get us high-brow 4runners mixed up with those lowlifes.
 
RatLabGuy said:
Hey dickhead, that was a Tacoma thing. Yeesh.
Don't get us high-brow 4runners mixed up with those lowlifes.
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Whaddaya want next? Solid axles?
 
CasterTroy said:
If Biden had grandchildren at that school this wouldn't have happened
Our politicians all have an armed army surrounding them, why should our kids not have that benefit?
That $53 Billion sent to Ukraine could have been used to provide more law enforcement at schools.
Click to expand...
amen....to the we shouldn't have too crowd. Well the same un effected crowd has all the money, power, influence or what have you to baby sit, brush away, or simply make the problems disappear. Just look at our Presidents son. Any other family he may or may not have been anything but worse. See it is money driven priorities. It is the "politics of the problem" not the foundations. It is everything that it isn't because "We the People" don't exist. The Government ran monopolies are boldly hidden by legal schemes called lobbying. Right before our eyes insider trades and tabled deals to propagate the Washington wealth continue and will only be ruffled when the flow of power squeezes the availability of more of it. Money. Material pursuits, Self before anything else and a whole list of perversions are manifest in what our nation has become. Sadly our politicians keep feeding the machine with policy and bred ignorance. Off topic? No. The evil in this country is the product of what we feed ourselves. Eat enough garbage produced by all of the highest marketing avenues you will reap garbage. Pass laws that deny family values, no the reinforcement of decentralization.(abortion, free living with little to no responsibility, same sex marriage). Make rulings in favor of chaos. (or lack thereof see burning of cities as a means of protest) Then apply manipulative decrees that reinforce blind dependence. (anything almost remotely related to the bloated social welfare and immigration policy) Its all for evil, selfish gain, and control.

I wrote this btw;
The Apple Tree Of Freedom
It started at the top of the tree long ago. The strongest limbs stretched and grew gaining the sunlight and swelling with foliage. The fruit came forth and for a while was pleasant and sweet. As the stump grew stout and sturdy it became less flexible while the same kept reaching for more sunlight. Growing immense with governing branches foliage became abundant and more sunlight was gobbled by the trunk. Stout and sturdy stood the tree. Through gale and gust the trunk planted firmly supported its branches. Foliage in abundance over shadowed most of the fruit bared. Occasionally the pound of hail in an unexpected storm would bruise the precious fruit. Still the trunk remained strong and rebounded with more branches and sun seeking foliage. But something was happening. As the greenery abound the fruit became less sweet. Sweetness was soon replaced with bitter and disease. The trunk still taught and rigid rooted in itself stayed fast. More branches with another passing season and another followed. The cycle repeated. The trunk laden with branches consumed with pursuing ever more light would bare fruit. Hard, pithy, bitter fruit clung to its supports now. The fruit under developed never fell for the harvest but clung now until rot and pest picked away at its flesh. Rotten and useless the fruit has become. The trees many branches now so many out number the harvest and little fruit is to be seen. The fruit left bitter and unfit houses seeds spoiled by the abundance of greenery. Rot replaces the sweetness and flesh of ripened well developed fruit. The tree having allowed its branches to dictate its path withers and fails. Casting seeds to the ground through un natural decay the trunk may have no lineage. They fall in the great shadow of foliage fertilized by the predecessors of seasons long degeneration.
 
justjeepin86 said:
To me it's more about the "known mental problems" having access moreso than the laws. How do you police that? I have no idea.
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You can't, so you don't. Trying only frustrates the masses. On the one hand, you have the victims who are saying "someone should have done something - said something," and on the other side you have people standing up for the rights of the mentally ill saying that it's prejudicial to "do something or say something because you are trying to judge motivations and not actions - or pre-policing". This is a slippery slope of whose rights are more important and who can yell loudest.

Point is, you can't legislate away evil. There will always be evil people in the world and good, innocent people will often times be in their crosshairs. Whether it's a semi-automatic rifle/pistol in the hands of a school shooter, a machete in the hands of a guy on a bridge in London, an airplane flying into the WTC and Pentagon or a dude with a baseball bat, evil people will use things to carry out evil deeds as they see fit. They will not abide by rules and laws, so no amount of bans on high capacity magazines, barrel length, etc. will ever amount to anything unless criminals get to a point where they are so afraid of the punishment they will face if caught that they change their evil ways.
 
ManglerYJ said:
You can't, so you don't. Trying only frustrates the masses. On the one hand, you have the victims who are saying "someone should have done something - said something," and on the other side you have people standing up for the rights of the mentally ill saying that it's prejudicial to "do something or say something because you are trying to judge motivations and not actions - or pre-policing". This is a slippery slope of whose rights are more important and who can yell loudest.

Point is, you can't legislate away evil. There will always be evil people in the world and good, innocent people will often times be in their crosshairs. Whether it's a semi-automatic rifle/pistol in the hands of a school shooter, a machete in the hands of a guy on a bridge in London, an airplane flying into the WTC and Pentagon or a dude with a baseball bat, evil people will use things to carry out evil deeds as they see fit. They will not abide by rules and laws, so no amount of bans on high capacity magazines, barrel length, etc. will ever amount to anything unless criminals get to a point where they are so afraid of the punishment they will face if caught that they change their evil ways.
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Less "branches"
 
"The reality is, I don't know the answer to that question," he continued. "However, what I do know in talking to the leaders here, as well as leaders and other locations around the state, and that is one thing that has substantially changed is the status of mental health in our communities. What I do know is this, and that is we as a state, we as a society need to do a better job with mental health. Anybody who shoots somebody else has a mental health challenge, period. We as a government need to find a way to target that mental health challenge and do something about it."
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The Texas governor said it! anybody that shoots anybody has a mental health problem. Police have mental health problems, shooting somebody in self defense you have a mental health problem.

www.foxnews.com

Uvalde shooting: Texas Gov. Abbott says Chicago, NYC crime proves harsher gun laws not solution

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said Wednesday that the Chicago crime rate proves tougher gun laws are "not a real solution" to stopping mass shootings.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

but he cut funding?

www.nbcnews.com

Abbott calls Texas school shooting a mental health issue but cut state spending for it

While such programs require more funding, they wouldn't eliminate the need for gun control, experts said.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
CasterTroy said:
If Biden had grandchildren at that school this wouldn't have happened
Our politicians all have an armed army surrounding them, why should our kids not have that benefit?
That $53 Billion sent to Ukraine could have been used to provide more law enforcement at schools.
Click to expand...

We have issues with mass shootings at other places, concerts, malls, etc that are way over what the rest of the world has.
The police had such a shortage, our kids school no longer has a crossing guard there to help in the mornings.
A single officer at the school with a hand gun may stand no chance in a situation like this, sure they might be trained more, but they are outgunned here.
This situation even had a resource officer confront the person (not sure if he carries) and he got past him.
Should the school look like a Mexican airport with a bunch of people surrounding it with high powered rifles?
 
DSM Turbos said:
Should the school look like a Mexican airport with a bunch of people surrounding it with high powered rifles?
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No.
But allowing teachers with plenty of mental health evaluations and CCW would certainly deter this type of incident.

We can argue all day till we are blue in the face. You will never see my side, and I will never see yours. No matter how many statistics either of us pull out of our asses.

The answer is: The IS no right answer. You will NEVER stop evil. You will NEVER prevent all disasters, and you can never do anything to eliminate hate. Cain killed Abel with a rock. It is in our nature to kill and destroy. The very best you can hope for is to carry a stick and never turn your back on the man holding the rock intending to harm you. So you can continue being an Abel, and just accept your fate, or you can buy a gun, learn to shoot and have the self discipline to only ever use it to defend yourself or your family.
 
CasterTroy said:
No.
But allowing teachers with plenty of mental health evaluations and CCW would certainly deter this type of incident.

We can argue all day till we are blue in the face. You will never see my side, and I will never see yours. No matter how many statistics either of us pull out of our asses.

The answer is: The IS no right answer. You will NEVER stop evil. You will NEVER prevent all disasters, and you can never do anything to eliminate hate. Cain killed Abel with a rock. It is in our nature to kill and destroy. The very best you can hope for is to carry a stick and never turn your back on the man holding the rock intending to harm you. So you can continue being an Abel, and just accept your fate, or you can buy a gun, learn to shoot and have the self discipline to only ever use it to defend yourself or your family.
Click to expand...

I don't actually disagree with armed teachers. I think there are a lot of concerns there to think about though also, as especially in HS a lot of these kids are stronger than their teachers and could make a situation worse, but at a high level, I'm not in disagreement there.

There is no easy answer here, but the fact that we haven't really done shit to even try to make it better other than a bunch of old rich people that have no clue about actual reality blaming each other for the problem. Instead we focus more on should trans people be able to play sports, should a women have control of their body. Nope, lets deal with these issues instead of actually keeping our kids safe. Hearing our kid come home from school when they talk about stuff like this in school, and asking them how does it make them feel and their answer is "scared", and instead our leaders want to get in a pissing match instead of actually trying something to help.

The US can't just do what Europe has done, because everybody already owns guns also, you can't just magically ban guns and expect the same result.

and trust me, I like guns, I have a my CCW and before my boating accident I really enjoyed mine!
 
CasterTroy said:
But allowing teachers with plenty of mental health evaluations and CCW would certainly deter this type of incident.
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I used to support this line of thinking. After the last 7 years of 2 high school kids I no longer do.
First - I have seen more thanmy share of mentally unstable teachers. Especially as Covid scared them. i could tell some stories. And thats just in my 1 little small town.

Second I personally know of 2 in classroom teacher assaults where a teacher was knocked down/out by a student. (Interestingly enough both times a female student)...I really dont want to introduce a gun here. Either the student takes the teachers gun and does who knows what, or the teacher feels threatened and draws and based on what Is ee at the range on the regular probably hits more students at their desk than she does the attacker. T

That is before we even consider the high population of extremely left leaning teachers that wouldn't carry anyway....
 
I havent studied this shooting very much, but did the shooter have to do anything special to get into the school?

I recall the FL school shooting, the "hallways" were basically outside, so there was really no protection if not in a classroom.

While it isnt perfect, to get into any of the main entrances of my kids' school, there are 2 sets of locked doors to go through with wire in the glass. While this only slows down the shooter, they cant just walk in. The easiest way to get into that school would be to bust out a window somewhere that maybe you could climb through, but the clock is immediately ticking at that point.
 
CasterTroy said:
The answer is: The IS no right answer. You will NEVER stop evil. You will NEVER prevent all disasters, and you can never do anything to eliminate hate. Cain killed Abel with a rock. It is in our nature to kill and destroy. The very best you can hope for is to carry a stick and never turn your back on the man holding the rock intending to harm you. So you can continue being an Abel, and just accept your fate, or you can buy a gun, learn to shoot and have the self discipline to only ever use it to defend yourself or your family.
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Agreed. Pruning the branches encourages strong growth, less disease, less poison. Did you know most all fruit bearing plants are somewhat resistant to the pest that devour them?(allegory) When weakened by excess growth those properties are expended and do not make it to the fruit.

To much government, to little mature people raising mature people. To much pursuit of perceived power and happiness focused on making more money. Evil is always in the back ground. The tree of liberty has a good trunk, but the branches are going to rob it til it withers through time or wise intercession trims the excess. People recognize the bad spoiled fruit, the bitter, and the pleasant. What really occurs to me is in the entire process the pruning has been forsaken. We as as country are bloated with policy, politics, and spoiled poisonous fruit. Will it be branches laden with bad fruit that tears from the trunk with horrific fissures ripped into the stump of liberty? Or will it be pruning?

I recall one master gardener who professed anything that does not bear good fruit would be burned like chaff. At his command no less. We better figure out how to make better fruits. Our seeds are already spoiling.....see our youth.
 
paradisePWoffrd said:
I havent studied this shooting very much, but did the shooter have to do anything special to get into the school?

I recall the FL school shooting, the "hallways" were basically outside, so there was really no protection if not in a classroom.

While it isnt perfect, to get into any of the main entrances of my kids' school, there are 2 sets of locked doors to go through with wire in the glass. While this only slows down the shooter, they cant just walk in. The easiest way to get into that school would be to bust out a window somewhere that maybe you could climb through, but the clock is immediately ticking at that point.
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I can't just walk into my kids school either, you have to be buzzed in. But, I can't tell you how many times I have gone to the school, hit the ring button, they buzz me in, bingo, i'm in the school, they don't know if i have a weapon concealed on me. Maybe if I had a duffle bag they wouldn't let me in?
 
Ron said:
I used to support this line of thinking. After the last 7 years of 2 high school kids I no longer do.
First - I have seen more thanmy share of mentally unstable teachers. Especially as Covid scared them. i could tell some stories. And thats just in my 1 little small town.

Second I personally know of 2 in classroom teacher assaults where a teacher was knocked down/out by a student. (Interestingly enough both times a female student)...I really dont want to introduce a gun here. Either the student takes the teachers gun and does who knows what, or the teacher feels threatened and draws and based on what Is ee at the range on the regular probably hits more students at their desk than she does the attacker. T

That is before we even consider the high population of extremely left leaning teachers that wouldn't carry anyway....
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Sheesh Ron. If you're not offering a solution then stop being critical of those who ARE :flipoff2::laughing:
 
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