Packing heat on campus

[Banned User]

I think what CAS was saying is that Guns are not the only dangerous thing on campus....referring to your previous comment about you kids not being able to hold a gun unsupervised during their "college" years. He was asking a rhetorical question about whether you think knives, forks, sticks, light bulbs should all be also banned form campus, b/c they COULD be dangerous

exactly...


QUOTE=raleighjeepguy;326108]Can you please pull me the info on accidental light bulb deaths last year. [/QUOTE]

Assuming that a minor is a person under the age of 18, there are more minors accidently killed by lighters than by guns.

The same goes for swimming pools, and even bicycles
Should we take those off of campuses?

God forbid we talk about the statistics of cars.

The whole point is that anything can be dangerous, with maturity and training, everything can be used properly. With negligent or irresponsible users, everything could be a weapon. A gun is a convenience when it comes to defense.

If criminals are going to use them against law abiding citizens, i just want you to give me one good reason that we shouldnt be allowed to have that same convenience to protect ourselves. If i dont have a gun i am going to defend myself with any weapon of opportunity. Why shouldnt i have a gun to make it easier to dispatch of those criminals whos intent is to kill the innocent?

I agree that your kids probably shouldnt be allowed to carry guns on campus because anyone who thinks guns are so scary or dangerous probably wont give them the proper training to use them.

 

[Banned User]

After a brief check I actually couldn't find an accidental fork death. Wonder why?

i almost forgot...
http://www.local6.com/news/5021627/detail.html
theres just one of a few that i found. your version of brief must have meant not checking at all. Plus i never said "accidental"

this isnt the point though, the point is that ANYTHING can be used for evil so why try to ban something that is a useful tool for preventing that evil? The only people that can be disarmed by laws are the good people.

 

[leach]

First off I want to apologize for the lengthy post. Second if your name is in here I am not calling you out exactly, but just trying to show how narrow minded your post might be, or just how incorrect it might be. Third, I am a Virginia Tech student, have been for the past 4 years, and still going for my degree there. Fourth, I have worked as a repo man taking:cars, boats, trailers, campers, motorcycles, atvs, etc. and have been threatened with guns.

I read that today. I think that is a bad idea. I know when i went to college i would have a buzz from the night before in class. but like the cop said in the end of the interview, he is going to shoot anyone with a gun not in a uniform, so how will he be able to distinguish who is the shooter and the victim through gun play. I hope they dont go through with this. IMO.

Carrying while intoxicated is a no go. And that police officer should have his badge taken away as shooting anyone with a gun is straight up an ignorant as hell comment as that person may or may not be a threat to anyone…..what if the person in the room is a police officer responding because he was close but was off duty in street clothes. That cop is ignorant and shouldn’t carry a weapon period saying something like that.

I gotta say bad call. I wouldn't have trusted but one or two people I knew in college to handle a gun.

One or two people of the extremely small percentage of kids you knew. Say at VT for example, we have roughly 26,000 students. Say you knew 100 people well enough to decide whether or not they are responsible enough for CC, and out of them 2 were good enough. That’s 2%. Keeping those same statistics for the 26,000 students that 520 kids on campus carrying.

Horrible idea. To much irresponsibility and ignorance. Im sure there are responsible kids/adults out there that would only use their gun in a must situation, but then there would be all of those "young gun" "badasses" who would carry them only for intimidation purposes. Also in response to the first line of the article, if you have a gun in an unexperienced shooters hand and they go popping off some rounds in defense of themselves and end up shooting others in the class room by accident and killing them, well it just kinda nullifies the whole idea.

Those “badasses” have the right to carry the gun anytime they are not on campus for the intimidation purpose as you call it….but do they? No. Because it is against the law for them to conceal it and even your super “tough” ganstas wont because they fear being caught with it and charged. They carry however when they are going to use it. Do you think anyperson that commits a mass murder carries everyday just incase he is in the mood?

Does getting a Permit to carry give you training in a hostage situation? Does it give you training on how to fire on the run? Does it give you training on how to keep your weapon from being taken away?

No, but anyone that is responsible enough to get his CC should also feel the need to learn how to use his weapon with the utmost in precision, safety and speed. Those classes are available and people should take them if they want a better chance of survival in a shittay situation.

most 21 y/o college students are pampered little babies that would cry or shoot the innocent girl cause they couldn't hold the gun steady in a panic situation. the Military person has more training for that situation. GENERALLY SPEAKING of course. That's my take.

Dare I say I agree with you, but only to make a point. Most college kids have never fired a weapon, do not know how to use one or capable of using one. But how many of those people are capable of voting and making laws for those that know how to use a weapon, that know the rules and could do good with one?

The average eligible college student doesn't have a CCW now. What makes you wizards of crime prevention think that would change? No one here has suggested passing out handguns with every set of dorm keys.

Bingo

Guns = good, inexperience + weapon = bad

If only there was a way to teach people how to use a gun responsibly and to limit who can and can’t get them. Oh wait, it’s the CC classes and training courses past that.

I personally think this is a terrible idea……. If someone wants to kill people they will. Some psycho could just as easily throw together a bomb, walk into a school, and boom there goes 4x the people that died at VT. How about the guy that mowed people down @ UNC with a jeep? Guns in hand wouldn't have stopped that. Plans weren't structured at VT and many lives were lost b/c of it not only from letting the kid be a farking psycho on campus but also by not doing what should have been done after the shootings began. Give these kids a psychiatric exam or something. Am I saying b/c your f'd in the head you shouldn't goto college? NOPE! Take online courses and keep your psycho asses away from my kids. The real problem is these kids aren't getting their asses whipped when they are young.

Bad Idea, lets not put guns in the hand of people that can stop “if someone wants to kill people they will”. You saying no one is allowed to carry to defend themselves because someone else will try to kill them because his mind is made up, well my mind is made up that I have a right to stop him.

Or more cameras would be nice also
Gotta learn man. I always took 4 things to the bars or around campus..........
1)a copy of my house key that I kept on a sep keychain
2)my id
3)my debit card
4)my cell

Cameras don’t stop gunman, they provide evidence to who did something, and even that is not always enough to prosecute someone. Are you aware of how many murders happen during a botched robbery or mugging?

Maybe some stupid kid with a fake gun gets shot and they get sued.

If someone tells me to give up all my stuff and holds a fake gun to my face, say a 1:1 replica airsoft gun wth the orange tip removed, I will shoot him in self defense as I am not going to wait to see once he shoots first if it goes "bang" or is a toy.

dude you are so right. Lets all cc. I'm feeling ya dawg. It someone looks at you wrong just put a cap in em.


AIM HIGH!

You say that as a joke or as a sad attempt to make some kind of point. But really your showing ignorance as thosoe comments are what give some people the antigun view. They don’t know anything about guns themselves then they hear someone say that as they walk by, then they think all Americans are crazy and unstable to carry.

And heres one for you. KENNESAW, GA in 1982 passed a law saying every resident had to own a firearm and crimes dropped, as know one knew who had a gun and why would you rob anyone that has a gun?

That would be a hell no to them taking guns to college. Too many things can happen with guns. My kids will hunt but theres not much a chance I'd approve of them using guns unsupervised at that point. Then again my kids are prob going to be assholes like me and not listen regardless. I had a shotgun in the house at school but it was b/c I lived in a really great part of town. I can honestly say it came out 2x. No real need imho for kids to carry on a school campus.

So I am allowed to protect myself in my home but not on campus. You even said yourself the gun had to come out twice in a good part of town. Have you ever been in a bad situation? Have you ever been threatened at gun point? I guarantee not every American has, and as EVERYONE says when a tradegy happens in their area “I cant believe it, its not real. You see it on tv but you never think it would happen to you”. Guess what, it can happen to you, so protect yourself and others that are too ignorant to realize that the world isn’t a happy go lucky place.

really did you just compare guns with light bulbs and sticks? Can you please pull me the info on accidental light bulb deaths last year. I'm sorry for anyone that had a valid argument about having guns on campus b/c that just ruined it.

If I can remember correctly I am pretty sure before guns plenty of people killed things with sticks. If someone has a stick and knows how to use it and someone has a gun and has never shot it, 99% of the time the person with the stick is going to win. Can you tell me the number of accidental deaths of people driving while talking on the cell phone? Can you tell me how many accidental deaths people have each year DRINKING? A whole hell of a lot more than guns, and anyone that turns 21 can buy alcohol. How about people that can buy alcohol and drive? Should there be a permit class that you have to pass before you buy a beer?

 

[Banned User]

Rather someone talk to VT about how poorly the situation was handled in the first place. Why was that kid in school period? Why were people not on lockdown? Lots of things could have prevented deaths in that situation.

like total control of freedom? Stuff happens, and you react to that stuff. you don't oppress people to prevent crime.

He went to 1 counseling session at school and never went back. To me that screams falling through the cracks and it wasn't followed up on properly.

i'll tell you what. imagine we are in a classroom and a gunman comes in shooting...
I Have my concealed carry permit and a Sig229 with hollow-point .40 rounds and i get to use that to defend myself.

you get to talk him out of it and explain to him that he needs a change in his life and that its not his fault: he just fell through the cracks.

It would be interesting to see who walked out of there.

 

[leach]

And here is something else for people that say put a gun in a teachers hands. Sure that sounds reasonable. But if a kid is going to go into a room and wants to shoot lots of people, he is going to take out the threats. Such as: TEACHER FIRST. Bam, there goes your gun in the room, next biggest kids in there, BAM. then you have people hiding under desks and helpless.

If he doesnt know where the gun is, how the hell is going to eliminate that threat? And to you that say he has the elemeent of surprise. Yes of course he does for the first room. He will more than likely hit someone and that is sad, but wouldnt it be better that we have to pray for one family, rather than 10, or 32, or 100? Or say he kills the entire first room (remember this is guns on campus, not everywhere else) the rooms next door will know something is up, they can bllock doors....but what if you cant. What if like many college classes there are giant windows looking in (say a computer room)....no stopping rounds coming in, so that student with a gun that hears him coming can draw and position himself to shoot while having the rest of his class get down. Shooter is shot.

 

[raleighjeepguy]

Assuming that a minor is a person under the age of 18, there are more minors accidently killed by lighters than by guns.

Who said anything about minors? Over half of the lighter related deaths are by children under 5 which wouldn't fall into this argument at all anyways. Invalid argument sorry. If you really want to turn the table and fubar some statistics I can point out the fact that theres been under 350 deaths in school
related shootings over 50 years and that includes police incidents etc. Thats less than a 20th of how many people died from the flu last year alone so who cares right?


How about this for a statistic. If you buy a lottery ticket you have 6x better of a chance to win the jackpot than to be shot in a school. 70 million students a year and an average of maybe 20 deaths? I'm not saying its not a tragedy but its so small of a chance why put guns on campus period?

i'll tell you what. imagine we are in a classroom and a gunman comes in shooting...
I Have my concealed carry permit and a Sig229 with hollow-point .40 rounds and i get to use that to defend myself.

you get to talk him out of it and explain to him that he needs a change in his life and that its not his fault: he just fell through the cracks.

It would be interesting to see who walked out of there

I'm sorry what if the hell were you referring too? Did you get lost and put the wrong quote of mine in there b/c that has no argument with what you quoted. The statement I made was that he shouldn't have been on that campus period. He was a stalker and a psycho who the university let go with one counseling session. That is poor judgement in my honest opinion.

One or two people of the extremely small percentage of kids you knew. Say at VT for example, we have roughly 26,000 students. Say you knew 100 people well enough to decide whether or not they are responsible enough for CC, and out of them 2 were good enough. That’s 2%. Keeping those same statistics for the 26,000 students that 520 kids on campus carrying.

So you are suggesting we put guns in 520 kids hands a day just on one campus for an average of 20 deaths a year?

BRILLIANT!

Dare I say I agree with you, but only to make a point. Most college kids have never fired a weapon, do not know how to use one or capable of using one. But how many of those people are capable of voting and making laws for those that know how to use a weapon, that know the rules and could do good with one?

Is there english in there? Or even a point that makes sense?

Cameras don’t stop gunman, they provide evidence to who did something, and even that is not always enough to prosecute someone. Are you aware of how many murders happen during a botched robbery or mugging?

On a school campus? B/c that is what we are talking about here. I honestly have no idea and neither do you. I maybe shallow minded but your talking out your ass asking questions you have no idea about. I honestly feel your pain for being a VT and I really feel for the families that lost a loved one but I really don't feel this is the answer. People lost their lives in school shootings at VT. It wasn't b/c people didn't have guns.......it was b/c he was on campus, was very well planned, and was heavily armed/trained. There were highly trained police officers there that are far more qualified than most students could ever be.

If someone tells me to give up all my stuff and holds a fake gun to my face, say a 1:1 replica airsoft gun wth the orange tip removed, I will shoot him in self defense as I am not going to wait to see once he shoots first if it goes "bang" or is a toy.

See thats the difference between You and me. I would give somebody a cell phone over taking their life. Secondly I'm not going to risk my life reaching for a weapon if they already have a gun in my face. Thats just asking for a blown off noggin.

I Have my concealed carry permit and a Sig229 with hollow-point .40 rounds and i get to use that to defend myself.

So which ones full of shit........your underage user badge or your statement? Cuz I just think its your statement.

You say that as a joke or as a sad attempt to make some kind of point. But really your showing ignorance as thosoe comments are what give some people the antigun view. They don’t know anything about guns themselves then they hear someone say that as they walk by, then they think all Americans are crazy and unstable to carry.

it was meant to inflame you nutjobs but joking on how lightly you all are taking this. I'll take that as successful.

So I am allowed to protect myself in my home but not on campus. You even said yourself the gun had to come out twice in a good part of town. Have you ever been in a bad situation? Have you ever been threatened at gun point? I guarantee not every American has, and as EVERYONE says when a tradegy happens in their area “I cant believe it, its not real. You see it on tv but you never think it would happen to you”. Guess what, it can happen to you, so protect yourself and others that are too ignorant to realize that the world isn’t a happy go lucky place.

Then don't goto school. You can talk all your closses online if you want. There are 20,000+ other students besides yourself and it doesn't matter how you look at it. The majority of those students don't want you carrying a gun. Your home is your home and no one else has a say in it. If you want a gun then go for it. Hell I have 5 in my house but I would never carry one on a school campus out of respect for others.

Can you tell me how many accidental deaths people have each year DRINKING? A whole hell of a lot more than guns, and anyone that turns 21 can buy alcohol. How about people that can buy alcohol and drive? Should there be a permit class that you have to pass before you buy a beer?

Alcohol is not a weapon. Alcohol was not designed to kill.........guns were. Its an invalid argument.

No, but anyone that is responsible enough to get his CC should also feel the need to learn how to use his weapon with the utmost in precision, safety and speed. Those classes are available and people should take them if they want a better chance of survival in a shittay situation.

Yea sorry I don't care what class you've taken I don't want you determining whether to shoot at someone or not in a mass of students. You are not a police officer and if you feel so compelled to fight crime then you should become one. Until then this is not the wild wild west and you should not put any one elses life in danger for the 1 in 4 million chance that you get killed in a school shooting.

If I can remember correctly I am pretty sure before guns plenty of people killed things with sticks.

I'm sorry dude I completely forgot when that kid when into that university and took out 10 people with a stick. Please if you are going to argue don't bring sticks or light bulb deaths into it. Its just silly. I do however like how you bring up the small amount of deaths that were caused by guns yet the school shootings death count is a speck compared to it. In your process of thinking irony is God.

like total control of freedom? Stuff happens, and you react to that stuff. you don't oppress people to prevent crime.

Yea sorry I'm not feeling your John Wayne bullshit for walking around 28000 kids with a loaded weapon. I don't know you well enough to sit next to you with a loaded gun and 99% of your school doesn't either. In fact I'm pretty sure your school doesn't want another gun on its campus ever again.

I'm 21 and in college. So you think I should not be allowed to carry a handgun unsupervised?

Not on school grounds. I don't care what you have under your pillow. I'm not an anti gun freak. I own guns just fyi I just really don't think its an appropriate action to allow this and in 90% of the time 18-21 is about that perfect age for "think you know everything but don't know shit".

 

[leach]

"So you are suggesting we put guns in 520 kids hands a day just on one campus for an average of 20 deaths a year?

BRILLIANT!"


I am saying from what was said about 1 or 2 people he knew would be responsible enough to carry concealed out of the few number of students, think of how many "good" ADULTS (over 21, no criminal record, psycho check) could responsibly carry. If that was the cause do you honestly believe that there would be the same number or more deaths per year?

If so that is your stance and I can respect that, but I will keep mine and heaven forbid I need to use it.

And for online classes, give me my degree with the option of taking it online I gladly will, not just for the guns but hell I'd save a ton of money on fuel.

"See thats the difference between You and me. I would give somebody a cell phone over taking their life. Secondly I'm not going to risk my life reaching for a weapon if they already have a gun in my face. Thats just asking for a blown off noggin. "

whats the guarentee that you will not be shot afterwards? there isnt. there are too many varaibles and situations that work one way one time and another way another time. Its just that if I am put into a situation where a gun would help me then yes I would want it.

And I have been in situations where I have been on the bad end of a gun while at work. And I was able to back away or explain myself/calm the person down without incident. But if anything were to get out of hand then yes I would been glad I had the ability to defend myself.

 

[Will Carter]

Holy bajeezus that's alot of multiquoting...I thought I was bad...

Not on school grounds. I don't care what you have under your pillow. I'm not an anti gun freak. I own guns just fyi I just really don't think its an appropriate action to allow this...

Let me make sure I have you straight here...You feel that people who have gone through the steps of obtaining a permit should be able to carry a weapon to protect themselves anywhere (not prohibited by law) except for a college campus...am I correct?

 

[leach]

"Alcohol is not a weapon. Alcohol was not designed to kill.........guns were. Its an invalid argument. "

it might not fit some peoples definition of a weapon, but it kills when abused or misused. and there is no limitation of getting it once your 21, and even when your underage its really easy to get it. If we limited that how many college kids might be saved each year? I know this is not part of a gun argument, but its about where do you draw the line?

Its like this lady:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/dec/11/volunteer-vaults-to-hero-status/

how many people would have died if she wasnt there to stop him?

 

[MuddyBronco]

Personally, I feel that you should in fact have the right to protect yourself. However, what are the odds that you'll ever actually NEED a firearm at school ? Sure, shootings happen. But they are ten times more likely to happen in your home than they are at a school. I think firearms should stay out of schools. Keep them under lock and key in the home, and if you feel the need to carry in public on account of being near a rough area .... fine. Schools though ? Come on now ...

 

[raleighjeepguy]

Leach there is this crazy thing called . If you don't know how to use it then why in the hell are you trying to quote someone? Your last 2 posts are damn near unreadable. If you are going to argue on the internet like the rest of us E tough guys please don't a clusterf*&# that is unreadable.

 

[raleighjeepguy]

Let me make sure I have you straight here...You feel that people who have gone through the steps of obtaining a permit should be able to carry a weapon to protect themselves anywhere (not prohibited by law) except for a college campus...am I correct?

Any school period imho. There aren't that many school shootings and I honestly don't feel theres a need. Yes it seems to not agree with somes thinking but I guarantee if you took a vote 90% of the student population would not want guns on campus.

 

[leach]

ralieghjeepguy, your absolutely correct about me sucking at the internet. I shall try to be more legible in the spirit of discussion.

Personally, I feel that you should in fact have the right to protect yourself. However, what are the odds that you'll ever actually NEED a firearm at school ? Sure, shootings happen. But they are ten times more likely to happen in your home than they are at a school. I think firearms should stay out of schools. Keep them under lock and key in the home, and if you feel the need to carry in public on account of being near a rough area .... fine. Schools though ? Come on now ...

This is the whole point, no they dont happen that often, but why would you risk that? And crimes are committed in any area, good or bad. Its not the area that commits the crime, its the person and where he chooses to do it. And when you say "what are the odds that you'll need a firearm at school" well if you asked me a little over a year ago I would say very very slim. But its not that there is a chance it could happen, no matter how big or small, its whether or not you want to be able to protect yourself if you find yourself in a situation like that.

 

[raleighjeepguy]

ralieghjeepguy, your absolutely correct about me sucking at the internet. I shall try to be more legible in the spirit of discussion.

Sorry I had to say something b/c my head almost exploded trying to make heads/tails out of your post.

 

[Will Carter]

Any school period imho. There aren't that many school shootings and I honestly don't feel theres a need. Yes it seems to not agree with somes thinking but I guarantee if you took a vote 90% of the student population would not want guns on campus.

So if I changed my original question to "any educational campus" instead of "college campus" you would just give an answer of "Yes"?




...and if you're going to call people out on their 'E-tard'-ness you should probably learn how to put a name with a quote so readers don't have to filter back through other posts to see who you're addressing...

 

[leach]

but I guarantee if you took a vote 90% of the student population would not want guns on campus.

I agree that many students would not want guns on campus. But my point is (that I poorly tried to make earlier in the giant post) would that number change if those kids knew exactly what needed to be done by a person to have a CC permit? And what if they just knew more about guns and gun safety in general. I think the numbers would change. You dont have to be a police officer to know how to operate a gun and I think many people believe something similar to that/they are clueless about guns.

 

[Will Carter]

...But my point is (that I poorly tried to make earlier in the giant post) is that would that number change if those kids knew exactly what needed to be done to have a CC permit, what kind of student/adult that person would have to be...

That number would definately change...Just from the students i've had conversations with on campus I can say that I think I've opened a few eyes. For them to see that a ccw holder isn't wearing a cowboy hat and a rebel flag t-shirt was quite the eye opener for some. Then to explain the effort it takes to obtain such a lisence people start to question their own 'down with guns' mindset.

I'm not saying i've converted anyone from the 'other' side...I can say that I've atleast got them sitting on the fence now...hoping they fall on our side...

 

[leach]

Exactly, I try to explain CC just like hunting whether its for food or removing groundhogs from a cow pasture. Its not a hatred so much as they dont understand and they have thier own mindsets of what people that own guns/carry concealed are like. That is why I try to bring new people out to the range to help open thier eyes to the other side of the argument.

 

[kdunc]

It's sad to see people with this "you don't really need all these freedoms" attitude.

raleighjeepguy, your position here seems to be that guns aren't warranted on campus; that crime isn't bad enough to need guns at school. I don't know about you, but that's not how my rights work.

My freedom of speech is not consequent to me needing to talk. It isn't because of any particular things that I must say that I am free to say them. On the contrary, I am free to speak up or be quiet, and limitations on my freedom of speech must be proven thoroughly vital to the common good. I am free to do anything, until there is a very, VERY good reason I shouldn't be.

You need to build a strong case showing how carrying concealed weapons on campus is inherently more harmful than any crimes those weapons might interrupt or discourage, and you have not done so. You've talked about accidental shootings, but most of those are irrelevant to this discussion, being due to hunting accidents and children playing with unsecured guns. You have not shown evidence that the presence of concealed weapons is somehow significantly dangerous, nor have you established any substantive distinction between a college campus and any other public space where CCW permits are valid. You've said schools are places for learning, not guns. Where are guns appropriate, then? Grocery stores are places for groceries, not guns. City parks are places for nature and recreation, not guns. Back alleys are places for dumpsters and fire escapes, not guns. Should we prohibit armed self-defense in all of those places, too?

The majority of students might not favor guns on campus. Is that a rational argument? Should your rights be restricted because of the arbitrary preference of a non-random mob? I don't think so. They might not favor doing homework or having their keg parties broken up by the cops, but those particular preferences aren't arguments for or against any of those things. Your hypothetical majority needs just as strong an argument as you alone do. Besides, how can you count on the opinions of people you won't even rely on to handle firearms responsibly?

 

[Banned User]

So which ones full of shit........your underage user badge or your statement? Cuz I just think its your statement.

Its called a hypothetical situation. I wanted you to imagine the scenario. Thats the type of pistol i own. It is registered in my dads name and i dont carry it places because i am not 21 for another few months. My girlfriend just turned 21 and shes getting her CC and she wants to carry it until she gets a pistol of her own. I was spelling the situation out to you and you still missed the point.
I wont give you scenarios anymore, they just fly right by you.

What i mean is that you think that the fault is in the school and they should have stopped what happened. you say he didnt have enough counseling. My point is that when he comes shooting, words arent going to stop him.

This whole argument boils dow to a simple philosophy:
When there is a shooting spree on campus, It doesnt matter why, who, how or when it is happening. It doesnt matter who should have stopped it. It doesnt matter what the shooters past was like. It sure as heck doesnt matter how unlikely the situation is. When a school is getting shot-up, what matters is that people are dying who dont need to be. I for one value human life too much to say that they shouldnt have the capability to defend themselves.

 

[Banned User]

The majority of those students don't want you carrying a gun.

they would never know... if you actually knew how CC was supposed to be done. the whole point is concealed

You are not a police officer and if you feel so compelled to fight crime then you should become one.

any cop will tell you that you should not get involved, and that it is there job. Thats what they are supposed to say. I dont care if you are a police officer or not, you need to know how to protect yourself. Also our intent isnt to go out and fight crime. CC is a proven deterrent, and a useful tool IN CASE it happens.
sometimes the police are too far away, and you have to take things into your own hands, in a responsible, careful way.

 

[raleighjeepguy]

raleighjeepguy, your position here seems to be that guns aren't warranted on campus; that crime isn't bad enough to need guns at school. I don't know about you, but that's not how my rights work.

No matter how you look at it you don't own that property. Is it wrong that businesses can reserve the right to not serve someone?

It's sad to see people with this "you don't really need all these freedoms" attitude.

For real are you really that opressed by not being able to bring your gun into a classroom? I really do somewhat agree with your line of thinking and I applaud the hell out of you for bringing a fresh and actually useful point to this never ending shithole of an argument. Alot of things in the US could be determined to be unconstitutional. I mean why can an 18 year old kid goto war but not buy a beer? Why can't I drink a beer in the street? Why can't I smoke on most school campuses? Imho theres a lot of "fight club" mentality going on here.

his whole argument boils dow to a simple philosophy:
When there is a shooting spree on campus, It doesnt matter why, who, how or when it is happening. It doesnt matter who should have stopped it. It doesnt matter what the shooters past was like. It sure as heck doesnt matter how unlikely the situation is. When a school is getting shot-up, what matters is that people are dying who dont need to be. I for one value human life too much to say that they shouldnt have the capability to defend themselves.

You aren't even concerned with the shootings. Its obvious from reading your posts that you are by far more concerned with carrying a gun and protecting your rights. Theres nothing wrong with that but don't stand behind tragedies to push your agenda. I actually like kdunc's post b/c he has points. You however have shown nothing but opinion which in mind shows that you have never once looked for anything to back your "opinions" and this subject really isn't that important to you. And no "lightbulbs are more dangerous than guns" does not count for crap unless we are taking a tally on retarded crap that you have said in some of these posts. I have no problem with opinions but opinions are like assholes......and mine def stinks and so does yours.

any cop will tell you that you should not get involved, and that it is there job. Thats what they are supposed to say. I dont care if you are a police officer or not, you need to know how to protect yourself. Also our intent isnt to go out and fight crime. CC is a proven deterrent, and a useful tool IN CASE it happens.
sometimes the police are too far away, and you have to take things into your own hands, in a responsible, careful way.

Why are they supposed to tell you that?
What is your background in terrorism control?
How about in school shootings?
Negotiation?

I'm not being a smart ass. I just really want to know what qualifies you to take out shooters in a mass panic situation. I mean if you saw a guy running from the cops on the highway would you join the chase? Where is your line cut? I mean can you put a bullet in someone for mugging someone else or is it just for yourself? Do you have to make sure they are armed? Do you know?

What i mean is that you think that the fault is in the school and they should have stopped what happened. you say he didnt have enough counseling. My point is that when he comes shooting, words arent going to stop him.

No my point was in the VT case the kid shouldn't have been on that campus period. He was a psycho and people knew it. He talked about killing people and was stalking women. He slipped through the cracks of administration b/c no one cared. I'd rather clean the food off my counter than worrying about spraying down the ants later. How about you?

You need to build a strong case showing how carrying concealed weapons on campus is inherently more harmful than any crimes those weapons might interrupt or discourage, and you have not done so. You've talked about accidental shootings, but most of those are irrelevant to this discussion, being due to hunting accidents and children playing with unsecured guns. You have not shown evidence that the presence of concealed weapons is somehow significantly dangerous, nor have you established any substantive distinction between a college campus and any other public space where CCW permits are valid.

I don't have to prove shit actually. You guys are the ones "bucking the system". I simply agree with the current situation. You are suggesting that I should have to back up federal laws to disprove that your theory won't work. Your thought process is backwards and quite frankly I am the only person who has brought any kinds of factual information into this thread. You have not posted anything that could put a concrete layer of proof into my small small brain. You are pointing an ironic finger at me with the burden of proof lies not in my lap but in your own. Just b/c you have Cas your sheep to go ............ o yea o yea doesn't make your factless theories any more true. Back your shit up and I'll listen. So far I've heard 5 pages of "whaaaaaa I could stop a shooter" and "lightbulbs are more dangerous than guns".

That number would definately change...

thats a baseless statement with no factual backup. Stop screaming for something none of you are fighting for in the right way. I want you to talk to entire campus's and get back up for this b/c I can say that a chicken can shit diamonds.....but doesn't make it true. If I'm incorrect and you've done campus wide testing on this subject please correct me. Sampling in selective groups floats about as well as a rock in this conversation.

...and if you're going to call people out on their 'E-tard'-ness you should probably learn how to put a name with a quote so readers don't have to filter back through other posts to see who you're addressing...

Why? If I'm quoting the person I'm coming back directly to them. I'm not here to remind people what they said but if it will make you happy then I will do it. Honestly at this point I'm not posting itt until someone throws out facts about why they should. I can sit here and argue about opinions all day damn but no ones is going to change obviously. Lets all agree that if its not fresh it doesn't come back. Bottomless shit stirs of conversations make me want to puke.

 

[Banned User]

any cop will tell you that you should not get involved, and that it is there job. Thats what they are supposed to say. I dont care if you are a police officer or not, you need to know how to protect yourself. Also our intent isnt to go out and fight crime. CC is a proven deterrent, and a useful tool IN CASE it happens.
sometimes the police are too far away, and you have to take things into your own hands, in a responsible, careful way.

Why are they supposed to tell you that?its called liability

What is your background in terrorism control? USMC, training, and common sense

How about in school shootings? common sense, history and training

Negotiation? The whole point is that you dont negotiate with someone who is unloading clips. YOU STOP THEM. I dont understand why you dont realize that it is irrelevent why a shooting is happening during the shooting. maybe he shouldnt have been in there. the school failed at that. IT STILL HAPPENED and if i were in one of those classrooms, with CC, there is a posibility it could have been prevented. That possibility, however small it might be, is why i will carry CC. It is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I'm not being a smart ass. I just really want to know what qualifies you to take out shooters in a mass panic situation. EVERYONE is qualified to take out shooters in a mass panic situation. As a human, you have the responsibility to keep order, and to stop terror. Cops do that as their job. Others of us have the common sense to know that if our skills can be utalized before the cops show up, thats good. None of us want to try to be a hero. Non of us even want to use our pistols on another human. IF the situation comes up though, you would be a fool not to defend the innocent.

I mean if you saw a guy running from the cops on the highway would you join the chase? no because they are already on it. If i saw the crime commited i would do everything in my power to stop the guy or help deter the guy until the police get close.

Where is your line cut? I mean can you put a bullet in someone for mugging someone else or is it just for yourself?i sure hope you dont own any weapons like you say you do. You obviously lack the common sense to use it properly if you think you just shoot a mugger. $ is not worth anyone dying...not even the mugger. If i feel like MY life in in danger, or when someone pulls a gun on YOU, that is when m pisol would comeout.

Do you have to make sure they are armed? yesDo you know?no but you dont shoot until you do know and need to stop him from inflicting death or serious harm on yourself or others

I really hope you dont ever carry unless you learn this stuff. It would help you to go look up CC laws before you argued anymore. It would really help you to do alot of research before you post many opinions.

 

[Banned User]

Just b/c you have Cas your sheep to go ............ o yea o yea doesn't make your factless theories any more true.

hah, wow i didnt even see that the first time i read through.
You think i am parroting someone? is it because im "an underage user" that you think i dont have my own opinions? what is it? Whose puppet are you? All i am doing is having a conversation, and giving my facts and opinions. sorry if we came across as mean but were not ganging up on you and i sure as heck am not saying somthing because anyone else wants me to. I may be young but what i say comes from me. I didnt have a problem with you, just your opinions. That was until you started crying and name calling. i may be an "underage user" but at least i have the ability to think for my self and hold a rational conversation without gettin angry.

 

[Will Carter]

Is there an 'Ignore' button for an entire thread?...

...i'm out...